Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback BG3 has the WORST spellcasting on all TT adaptations that I've played

The combat is nothing but a snoozefest get real

You comparing spellcasting power at level 4 in 5e system to high level spellcasting in 3.5/Pathfinder.

Totally bet you can summon frikkin' 500 Devas in Pathfinder: Kingmaker at level 4... owait - you can't, your big bad mega spell is grease + some sort of flame attack at that point. And you can summon a shitty wolf and some other level minor creature as Sylv Sorc. And all that mostly because they made Grease such a god spell in Pathfinder: Kingmaker with how reliable its CC is there and it being flammable on top of it.

So what's the trolling about? Character level 4, second level spells out of nine levels not being awesome enough? Gosh, that's some shocking revelation there, mate. I am totally with you that Larian should let us spam summon devas as level 4 wizard...

Gotta mark this in the calendar as the day I agreed somewhat with one of SorcererVictor's lengthy hot-takes lol

However, atm your prrrrecious Wizard is likely the by far most overpowered class assuming with the right overpowered character defining gear (stop it Larian!) and abusing the immersion breaking generous resting system (give us day/night cycles!). I would like less Larian spins on every aspect though even if return to normalcy technically is a nerf from present state. Ie. Fire Bolt cantrip that at first level presently can set you and the ground on fire causing 8 hp damage before you can act again...even on a miss.

Just a note magic missile level one produce 3 arrows not one, level 2 produce 4 worst case scenario dange done is 3 (lv 1) or 4 (lv 2). Also if you are a little concentrate in the game for all magics or action there'is an allert if an environmental object blocks the way (just like the system allerts if there's too much height difference).

Another thing "proven by some players" has not statistical meaning (just like this forum, lets be real this is just a cookie and a tap on more vocal players).

Furthermore the sensation that comes out from reading a lot of a comments is "I have some kind of playstyle/ personal opinions on what a game should be so I want everything to respectfully allign with how i think".

The bloated xp, what's the problem? Or the difference (for an average, normal skilled, with average luck, player) with increasing their stats and so on? To me it would mean that I'd have to use the same amount of time (or even more because if they have bigger armor class, bigger bonus on saving rolls and so on it would mean that a player had to hit the mob more and more times).

And why in world were magic is known monster should be able to be one hit killed by it? Specially spells from a low level player? Just a little remainder but even if you see (how much of a prejudice!) them just as goblins, they're at your same level, they belong to one or another class, that means they have the same profiencies you have. So, again why should a same level adversary be easily oneshot killed by magic?

Believe to the average player (and I am one) it doesn't matter if the difficulty is due to hp bloat, to modified skills and so on, the frustration remains the same (I forgot how many times I got killed by a friging rat, not a Goblin a rodent, in the first room of the starting dungeon in Daggerfall, or the numerous times I died in the very first area outside the starting village of Baldurs Gate etc etc.. ...).

[And this bring back memories of why the friend who introduced me to RPG opted for the Whitewolf instead of D&D (even if he was an avid reader of tolkien style fantasy): the candy threat of over power playing.]

Furthermore, the colour of the spells? Seriously? I'm very surprised the social managers of Larian (and other games) don't give us the finger and tell us to get write our own game.

Awesome is not necessary to kill goblins... But a spell that just can't kill ANY of them just suck... How can we feel even a little bit powerfull if our characters are weak against the weakest creatures...

I totally agree with that sentences :
"That is so fun and engaging to waste all powerful spells in every encounter and resting after each goblin battle /sarcasm"

That's also a real consequences of Larian's rules.
(Even if yea, you can cheese everything not to rest...)

I mean you say that, but then you also have flipsides like Wizards oneshotting Dragons with thunderwave or simple fire spell setting off Hiroshima reactions.

Heck, you bet Fireball spell alone will be much more powerful in BG3 because it will 100% leave a surface on top of base damage.

Overall it's a mixed bag, when it comes to spellcasting some stuff is weaker, but some stuff is stronger too. Things like Ray of Frost and Firebolt already show how powerful magic will be with a few more levels already when instead of a tiny ice/fire/static puddle/cloud you likely will be able to cover half the battleground with that.


If I know anything about Larian - you'd be having threads crying about how magic is crazy OP after the game launches, once surfaces really come into play. What you have now is just a tiny preview of what's to come once there will be huge AoEs with effects tacked on.

I'm sure you'll be able to kill the goblin in one attack on lower difficulty levels. The current difficulty level is closer to Hard than Normal.

So your argument is that surfaces should/will increase the power of spells ?
I'm sorry but there are PLENTY of spells in D&D that don't involve fire/poison/ice/electricity. What about them ?

Surfaces are cool but they definitely shouldn't be the entire balance of the game. Cantrips are often more powerfull than any level 1 spells and they shouldn't be.

Surfaces should add cool possibilities and/or tactical choices but they shouldn't define what is powerfull and what is not because the game is going to loose a lot of depth.

Just to talk about fire bold what is more powerfull ?
- 40% chance to OS a goblin and 60% to do 1-6 damage (D&D rules)

- or 0% chance to OS a goblin, but 1D6 damage + burning + surfaces damage ? (Larian).

I guess it's two different points of view...

I'm sorry, but I doubt you see the wholesale changes you're looking for. Changes, yes, but more in the nature of tweaks. Things like disengage, surfaces, aoe arrows, hide as a bonus action, carrying around barrels, and unlimited resting all could see change, but what you (and Victor) are asking for is basically trash fights. You talk about boring combat, but nothing is more boring in TB than trash fights.

People like to point out that Solasta is closer to PnP combat, and I like Solasta, but those devs did basically the same thing by inventing Soraks. Soraks are basically BG3 goblins.

And that's why this game is 1 year plus off release. Yes, you can bet, surfaces will be HUGE and skew balance towards magic a lot. But don't assume that's all to it - you can already see Larian experimenting with other spells too, for example go compare 5e Sleep and BG3 Sleep - the spell is changed to take higher HP tables for goblins into account there too.

Same goes for sneakier things like that Magic Missile ring that turns it into a pretty beast spell for its level.

It's all iterative process. They will make adjustments where it's really necessary both ways, but one thing is certain - magic won't be weak in Larian game.

Sorry but I edited my last message while you where writing.
About surfaces and powerfull spells...

what is more powerfull ? (Fire bold)
- 40% chance to OS a goblin and 60% to do 1-6 damage (D&D rules)
- or 0% chance to OS a goblin, but 1D6 damage + burning + surfaces damage ? (Larian).

Sleep and control spells just suck in BG3...
Let the creatures have the D&D abilities and everything is solved. Let the spells have the D&D damages and everything is balanced.

And just let players create and play with surfaces if they want to choose that tactical options. Surfaces doesn't mean edit every D&D spells and their damages.

Surfaces are just areas on the ground that could create great tactical options.

This - is also firebolt: https://youtu.be/iSGQiFuZ8Kc?t=112

So yeah, surfaces are powerful matey. Sure it's cheese, but I think you need to look at the bigger picture there, than just some shitty goblin.

With your comparison you forgot one small but important detail - to oneshot a goblin at 40% chance in 5e vanilla the spell needs to actually hit - a bit difficulty with AC there. Larian version now is effectively partially unavoidable damage and it's not even 1d6, it's 1d6+1d4+Burning vs 12AC foes. It's a whole lot more of a spell already than in 5e it ever is.

Please this video is totally irrelevant. This is nothing about fire bolt.

I don't forget anything... An average of 4 turns with 40% chances to OS each time or an average of 4 turns without it is not really something that we should talk about.



I'm not asking for trash fight, I'm asking for more fluent combats and a better balance between the tactical choices we have to make.
Less HP doesn't necessary mean easier combats.
Games with huge HP bags ennemies are not always harder.

The level 1 characters are decently in context in the epic beginning. We don't fight the mind flayers or the devils, but are overwhelmed by it all. So I while I would prefer something more low key like BG1 that starts small and then builds, I can't blame Larian for making level 1 PC's "epic" in any way.

The magic missile double damage item is absolutely ludicrous and shouldn't exist. Sounds like OP would like overpowered mages since it's "ok"? It's fair in the sense that Larian wants to overpower everything (food, shove, jump, list goes on....), but let's rather tone stuff down shall we.

I do want 7HP goblins back so that Sleep and Color Spray do what they should. Level 1 mages aren't about spamming pumped cantrips and setting the world on fire.

I do want resource management to be a thing so I can't empty my spell arsenal every fight and then just quickly click for a long rest. This is fundamentally not understanding how D&D works and frankly I'm a bit worried. Solasta devs get this and Larian should pay attention instead of twisting D&D into some odd variation of Divinity. The infinite healing from food and the free long rests are directly linked into how spellcasters work in BG3. Traps are also a joke in BG3 because you can just set them off and eat a few apples to get your HP back.

Mess with the resource management and action economy and you will have a bad version of both D&D and Divinity that no one likes.

Disagree with the OP that spells are rare. I feel like I'm under a constant scroll shower, and apparently anyone can cast spells from scrolls. Which makes magic a lot less special if it's available to anyone like that.

The BG3 hotbar is abysmal in functionality and microscopic in size. Casting prepared spells needs it's own interface sorted by level. Same with usable items, they should be sorted under another separate button. Then the hotbar needs to be like NWN1 where you put the things you want instead of it becoming a huge mess of everything.

I think you make a lot of assumptions there, rest is very clearly WIP as of now - it won't stay rest nilly willy everywhere at will.

I think it's fair to recognize that a lot of things now are work in progress and you can bet rest is one of them. It's ok they understand it all far better than random forum posters and they have WoTC on top of that making sure that the game released is D&D franchise, that's the license.


And yes, hotbar is atrocious for 2020 and I am sure they will change it a lot and even if they don't - modders will.

It's not that they are hard because of the bloat, it's that the bloat takes more turns to deal with and changes the tactical situation. They are harder to ignore as you focus down the more powerful enemies.

I think those are fair assumptions because the trend of overpowering everything can be seen across many systems in BG3.

Easy resting anywhere, op magic food everywhere being essentially free healing on top of free resting, op shove, op disengage, op weapons with abilities compared to 5e, op dipping, op cantrips making surfaces and doing damage or effects on a miss, op Wizards learning Cleric spells, op free equipping and item use from anyone's inventory... it's a very long list of systems that were designed and coded in already. And Larian has given us zero insight what their stance is on anything. What they consider experimental, unfinished or final. I get the feeling that it's a design philosophy to remove restrictions and overpower everything in the name of "fun" i.e. change how D&D works.

Encounters have already been crafted for this rest/heal economy and action economy. It would make little sense to spend a lot of time redoing the systems and then going over every single encounter again.

Nope. I an saying that even for a dungeons & kobolds character, he is extremely weak. Also, I never played a game where you can enter in the underdar at lv 1~4. That is INSANE. Underdark part on Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager was a nightmare.




Nope. That is a strawman. What Larian should have done is :
1 - Allow you to reach higher levle if they plan to introduce spelljammer ships and underdark
1.2 - Or made a low level campaign that makes sense to be low level
2 - Not made HP bloat ruining spells like sleep.
2;2 - At least made the HP bloat a OPTIONAL RULE

I hate HP bloat rule. As Maximus said "How can we feel even a little bit powerfull if our characters are weak against the weakest creatures..."



Make the game more P&P like. Wizards able to rest after each fight is ludicrous.




This is Barrelmancy from DOS2. Not D&D wizardry.
And how TONS of spells which has no surface effect or anything like that could work on this game? Larian is trying really hard to make 5e more dos like and both systems are completely different.

As for less miss, an small agile goblin being hard to hit makes sense.

An small agile goblin child soaking 3 heavy crossbow shots makes no sense.

I own a 175 lbf and believe on me. If Goblins existed, I doubt that they could soak an hit from it. Hell, there are people who use crossbows to hunt bears.

There is one thing I find BG3 does really well, if you take the time to look at them, it's the casting animations. The gestures and the vocals are really good compared to anything D&D I have even played. But the other concerns are good ones.

I fundamentally disagree with you.
Where you are or what you fight is irrelevant as long as difficulty has it's place. For example you do not fight the Dragon in Early Access, you meet one yes. The world exists around you and that means dangerous or epic things can happen around you at any time, and not only when you are of appropriate experience. The only difference is your choice. If I am above a certain level I might decide to fight my way through the Underdark rather than sneak.

To have humble beginnings AGAIN is just bloody lazy writing and is done to death.

Using BG1 as an example, there are plenty of very dangerous moments early doors, Saverok killing Gorion for example. "Plot point" you say, so is the Nautoloid. There are perhaps no Dragons to fight in BG1, (neither are there any here!) but there were Wyverns. The whole start to BG3 is about survival, against the Tadpole, the crash and anything that mioght be after you until you can get some answers and hopefully a cure.

So on Spells I'll concede there is work needed, but the Epic vs lvl aspect is only an argument if everything was downscaled to the level of the character and whilst there has been a modicum of evidence for that with the Grove, it's not wholesale.