Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) General My favorite part of the FAQ.

dunno if this was prevously confirmed before today (although we knew it was prolly coming), but this was very nice seeing.

also, the party members will be sweet and hopefully this is the first step to multiplayer in the next <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> game.

Mine is:

Features...
A deep and detailed storyline filled with plot twists and lots of sub-quests.

As a semi plot-twist freak, I hope they live up to that! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ditto.

Because, face it, the storyline of DD isn't all that twisty.

Ok, this is wrong place, but I don't want to start -the most hated part of FAQ post-, I hate rating. Teen rating is <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif" alt="" /> . I know, that rating can be serious obstacle to marketing and to sales, but,

may I ask Larian first:

Have you done any research on audiences, playing DD? Who are they, teens mostly?

Looking into this forum, at least at active members, I think, the majority are adults, can I say 25+ ? In this case, can new game be, hmm, a bit more mature, you know all these jokes and stuff, like political jokes? Bacause, choosing audience, like 12+ you choose approach, humour etc. I just don't want Riftrunner look like SuperMario.
Sorry, I didn't want to offend any of the readers.

Just curious.

PS BTW, I forgot, what rating DD had?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

As an adult (fresh but nevertheless <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />), I do think Super Mario rules! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Ok ok, RPG has dragons! Wiiii dragons rule! - Go Yoshi! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

speaking as an older, wizened orc....... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />
it's ALL fun....till someone gets poisoned! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />

I actually thought there was a lot of political depth in Divine Divinity. If you talk to the commoners, a lot of them have intriguing things to say about their status in society. There are also a lot of insidious political backstory at work in Divine Divinity, especially with respect to Duke Janus, whom I thought represented quite a number of bad rulers. The part about the royalty and nobles getting richer and richer while the poor continue to starve really struck me as sly social and political commentary, and I loved Divinity all the more for it.

I doubt Riftrunner will look like SuperMario. I have this personal suspicion that it'll feel more like Planescape: Torment (perhaps not exactly though), since it takes place in a demon dimension. I thought DD took a lot of great inspiration from Baldur's Gate II, which I also appreciated.

By the way I'm 19, still a teen. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

I didn't say anything about DD.



As PST fan, I very much hope Riftrunner will have the storyline camparable by deepness and impact.



My musings were based on FAQ about rating.

I had to check isrb.com before answering you Rose.

PST, IWD, DD, all have T (teen 13+).
Diablo has M (mature 17+).

Actually, what I thought about category -teen- is in category -everyone-, my mistake.

Well, I kind of thought that since Larian, the same company that brought us <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> , is making Riftrunner, that it would contain about the same quality of writing, graphics, and gameplay as DD. I could be wrong, as game companies have deteriorated over time, but I don't think that's likely to happen here, since Larian apparently listens to its fans (I love the suggestion forums). Anyway, it's too early to tell yet about RR, so I was spewing off about DD to illustrate what it did right and what could be done in RR. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> was rated 11+ in the benelux.
and i didn't see any childlish gameplay in that game.
even at stormfist casle , you hear that Janus a 12 year old brat has orgies and sexgames. Did you read the letter to his girlfriend? spicy stuff <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

soo don't worry , it wil not be Freddy fish <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

And how bout the "love" house in Verdistis?
Not really teen in my opinion - well i guess if you are Brintey Spears or that Argulara (Sp????) chick.
I guess teens are just older faster than when i was....so maybe the ratings have changes as well.
I can tell you, if i had kids, i would not want then playing DD at ten or thirteen (sorry - i guess i would be over protective...)

MAture? Like Diablo? yes, that would be better. Thou I didn't see anything bad in Divinity. Though Janus 'orgies, sexgames, adn the note Yes, it should be mature in the new one. Riftrunner and DD2.

are we going backwards in time, or what? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

it's a just a game for chrissakes !
maybe i just don't get it, but
i think not! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Naw, we're going forward in time. Nowadays too many young kids play video games, so if a game company writes for them there would be no lust-filled politically-deep and morally-atrocious storylines for adults! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> We can't have that... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohh.gif" alt="" />

not at all dare i say! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

You learn that stuff from school anyway. er..um .....*cough*.......what the heck am I saying ...*cough* <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />

or at least you should be it all depends on what school your going to!


Quaker High?

So, it seems peeps here have different positions:
1) make games available to everyone, with no hot stuff at all - ebrd rating E (everyone)
2) Make games for adults with political jokes, lust, blood etc - rating M (mature)
(Do not mix this with A (adult))
3) Something between 1 and 2, to be able to sell wide and still have some adult content - rating T (teen).

What game do you guys wanna see?

PS BTW, Rose, forgot to tell you yesterday, to be specific, you are not teen 13+, you are already mature 17+, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

4) A (adult) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

I hate rating systems........... 10 years from now, instead of having A they will have AA. People find the need to just define almost everything about life even the most sacred parts. Lets put a label on that because I have the power blah blah blah........

In any case teen (2) should be fine just as it was on the first product right? Its not like their capable of making the game super different if it were rated anyother way except if it were rated E (1). If by bad luck and chance that it's E then the game will replaces death noises with "ouch", "I think im dead", "thanks for killing me and peace on to thee" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> I mean come on "pow", "boom", "smack" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

er um don't take me seriously *cough* <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

that whole rating system is just a cover up.
remember the first batman movie? under 14 years old you could'n see it in Belgium (wich i ofcours did at my 12th <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> )
in gamingworld, there are alot of "violent" games around there,
like postal2, that's a game MADE by children.

but i was alraedy smashing zombies and scum with an iron wipp in castlevania on the NES since I was 11.

a good parent , knows what kind of games are capable for there children.
but as always. lots of them don't bother. as long as he/she is quit, i'm happy. putting young children in front of there tv-sets, from 8 oclock in the morning till 12oclock. give them some candy bars and then let them see more junk on tv..
that's the real problem these days!

just wanto say there are of cours alot of good parents also <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
i think we better put a stop on those television programs.

Thats really easy do to that on TV.
I mean I just wiped off my TV such channels, as Cartoon Network and Fox Kids - this is junk, but it keeps my daughter interested.
So, she is now looking discovery, national geographic and animals planet <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But, this is how I did, I don't vote for prohibiting such channels like Cartoon Network or XXX or whatever. I can decide myself what will I and my kids watch and what not.
Same with games. Let us decide which games to pass to our kids.

All those commissions prohibiting things like games, programs, etc, I see it as violation of my rights to choose.

yes, isn't it great we live in such an open-minded society? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

If all parents would make these decisions, are interested and informed, I would agree with you, Egin. But the majority doesn't even know what their kids are playing/watching - for various reasons.
And I gladly sacrifice rights for responsibility.
There is more than one violent game/movie necessary to violate - but I ask myself sometimes why do we adults need this? What kind of example (yes, boring old responsibility again) are we giving our youngsters?

And in my case again: I'm glad about rating, this helps me in my daily job to choose rather quickly which game/video/DVD can I buy and which can I leave out happily.

I see youngsters coming to us and wanting games that are on the index, I see youngsters coming with their totally uninformed grandparents and wanting to bribe them into borrowing unsuitable games/videos/DVD. Age rating helps me - I have a better argument in explaining, why I wouldn't recommend it.

Egin, not all adults are well-informed/responsible/interested - so, age-rating helps.

And it doesn't help the whole leisure industry if terrible incidents happen and the blame is then easily put on this industry - gamers are pressed into the violent corner again (Counterstrike e.g.)
Kiya

I do wish age-rating would be modified after some time though.

True. But, to get back to Bean's point: parents should in the first place decide what games are suitable for their children, it is their task to raise their children. Rating systems aren't motivating parents to be concerned anymore - it's another excuse for not having to bother... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

As long as rating serves informational purpose, yes Kiya, it probably helps uninformed parents determine, what game/movie they are going to buy to their kids.

But, I totally agree with Kejero. It is parents, who raise their children, so they should stay involved, not to pass this to rating systems, teachers etc.
They should care and stay interested in - what is this boy doing every evening in his room?-

PS Kiya, glad to see you again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sorry for throwing everyone off topic. I just felt compelled to speak out against this mass media thought. Hope I didn't step on anyones's toes...

And im not saying your a bad parent either <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> even though your life is ruled by what is "printed on the box" which is solely your decision.

But doesn't it make "some" of you mad that the general public blames "acts of violence and crime" on video games, music, movies and other forms of media. I mean what the *types in himself nocando <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />* NOCANDO (to express emotion <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" />) isn't the rating system supposed to have prevented that? Does it? Im not going to go into politics and how the government is slowing taking away our freedom <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> even the president <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />. Well thats all I have to say on the subject, double sorry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My eyes were opened up in highschool government class, triple sorry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

No need to appologize (imho <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) -- We may have went off topic, but it's still a topic - We need more discussions like this! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Yes, it makes me mad - it's always easier to point out that someone/something is to blame than recapitulating what one's own part was in this.

Kej/Bean/Egin - I agree with you fully, that parents have the first responsibility - do you know a way to make some of them see this? Can you think up of a solution to motivate some of them to take interest in what their kids are doing/playing/watching?

I don't know, how many years I had to fight in my library until I could buy PC games/RPG modules. They don't have a good rep. - and I saw my role in informing about the variety of these products, to improve their rep. It's really shocking how the youngster/adult world has drifted apart by mass media.

Again, if adults would take over full responsibility = then age rating will become futile, IMO.

On a sidenote: I still wonder why some adults like violent games/videos/DVD... just on a sidenote <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

o, how tons of adults like Vice City? hmm. I wonder why...

i(as an adult) like some shooting too once in a while,
hé you have had play them all once <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

but because parents like to play euh..solders o fortune2 with all the blood and gore doesn't mean they allow there children to play them too.
these days i happy too see that ther are alot of parential locks for reducing the violence in games.
but the big part is not the violence
but the education the parents and the envirement give too there children.

a child couldn't be more enthousiastic if his/her parents would be interested in the thing he/she do.
and putting them in front of a television and stuff them with chips. isn't goig to help a lot...

ive seen it with some families!

i played alot on my nintendo when i was young,
and i saw alot of comercialy cartoons like giyajoe and transformers but i also played alot outside exploring the lands of my (virtualy ) Rivelon <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

and my parents knew exactely when it was time to stop playing games or when i had to stop watching television

Agree fully - but it's not only the parents. A child is exposed to various environmental influences - partly school comrades, TV, and even by watching how adults deal with one another <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" /> - a lot of bits and pieces add to the puzzle violence and brutalization. It's a tough job - even for engaged parents to strengthen a kid.

To all: Age rating was meant as help... meaning well does not always give the solution "well done". So, please, don't condemn it totally.
Kiya

u know, when I see a game, I just look atr the game; not the rating. If its good, I'll get it; if its bad, I won't. There is absaloutly NO way that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> will be bad, so it good be rated for I care, I'll still buy it!

I also like playing violent games time to time. Why? Killing computer mobs or riding on the streets of Vice City releaves me from daily stress. And I want it to be violent, I want it to be bloody, sometimes very bloody. It depends on the game and on my mood. Sometimes, when I come home after difficult day. I am nervous. It helps a lot to start a game and shoot off some heads. Relaxing.

As for my kids, I choose very thoroughly, what games I give them.
Any shooter IMO is violent, regardless of that does it has any blood or not. Because, killing is involved there, kids don't know what is killing and it shockes them. At least at the beginning.

And I hate hearing my 6 years old daughter saying happily, that she just killed 5 bunnies and one froggie. right? I never give her anything like that.

It is a problem Kiya. How to make parents care about their kids? Damn, allow people to have a baby only if they are caring (make them pass tests or something). This is not gonna happend. Society will say, this is not democracy.

And about rating. Before buying any game I always look what is it. I visit gamespot, look at the review, screenies, reader comments, FAQ, play a demo. All this gives very good picture on the game. Only after that I go and buy it for me or for my kids.

Exactly - it is not democratic. And passing a test is no guarantee for someone to do a good job afterwards <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> (driver's license = good drivers? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" /> ) Therefore parts of the society put up commitees for age rating to deal with age unsuitable stuff. If social behaviour does not function within one little cell (family), the larger cell (state,country etc.) sets up regulations - sad, but true (same for laws, hm? We wouldn't need them if all were responsible).

And adults ARE allowed to get 18+ games, they just have to go through a little more trouble to get it - but the weakest have to be protected, if those in charge are incapable of it, for various reasons. Sad, but true again.

Why are people so eager to cry out loud when they see their rights endangered and sneak away when it comes to responsibility/moral for the group, their family or the community they live in? Yep, responsibility/moral is boring, takes discipline and cuts off a whale of fun - and fun is sooo important - easy fun, fun without going through trouble. Fun at all costs... (Why should I care about others? I want fun!I and I alone. I want to play this game now - and if I don't want to spend my money on it/or age rating interferes: I get warez - gah) - and the leisure industry responds: more violent games... Neverending cycle.

Egin, I am not happy about these regulations, wish, the human society wouldn't need them - well, our sad reality is as it is at the moment <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

PS.: I'm glad you take up your responsibility <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Because it is comfortable to them. Blaming others is one thing, taking responsibility is something different, even if it concerns their own children.

Fun. Yes, fun is important. I wanna play this game now with all blood and gore, and I don't want anyone restricting me from buying it. From other hand I don't want to see children playing it. What impact do have violent games on kids?
Maybe there is no noticeable influence now, but maybe that violence will come out later, in 5-10 years?

Violent games will be published as long as there is demand for them. And I can assure you the games are becoming more and more violent as industry is moving forward and games become more and more realistic.
Weird example:
in SOF1 you could shoot off 8 parts of the body, in SOF2 - 18. I may be wrong about numbers.

It may help if there is parental lock/violence control in the game, but again, parents should use it. Do they? I have no idea.

Rating slows down spread of violent games, as publishers are always planning target wider audiences, rating limits this.

Theese are my thoughts. I hate to see rating systems, and I hate to hear that small children are spending hours and hours without parent's care, watching spammy TV programs and playing bloody games. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

Kiya, and we can discuss and discuss this endlessly, as, ratings are very general. At what age person can be allowed to see blood? After his psychics, his mind becomes stable? I assume it is somewhere at 18, right? But, people are very different from each other, one is more sensible to stresses, to pressure, so it is 22 or 32 for him. How to handle it then?
I think you will answer, at least rating helps those below 18. And you are right, as there is no answer at the society lvl now, this again should be solved in smaller cells (families).

good point. people should be mindfull of what they let there kids play. My nephew (for the summer break aI'm staying with my bro's) is talking about how his friend so and so played Vice City and its really fun. my nephew is 13 years old! I was thinking of calling up and talking to this kids parents. very dissapointing in people. like Kiya said thats a double <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />

The parents of that boy just didn't bother to look at the cover of the game at the store, or they just don't care about rating.
(Vice City - rating M (mature 17+)).

wat makes me real sick is those "jackass" shows and every clone made of it...
Don't they realy know that kids are trying to imitate those things they do?

it would'nt bre the first time some kid puts his pants on fire and bare the consequenses. i'm talking about 12 year old!

the ultimate thing tpo do to stay "cool" with your buddies...

that's the problem. that everyting has to be harder , faster , bigger , to stay "cool".

look at the television programs , jerry springer, judge judy (is she human? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />)temptation island, big brother..it's all JUNK!
and those cartoons on cartoon network..euh... what happend to tex avery or bugsbunny?

You forgot Ozzy Ozbourne show on MTV - weird, sick s**t!
I am sorry, I couldn't find better words to describe this. And if I am not mistaken this show has prime-time on MTV. BTW, the poll was carried out, girls were asked - Who will be the ideal father for your kid. Osbourne had higher rating then Tony Blair.
Where are ratings, where is society with it's laws, restrictions and regulations? How many teens look MTV with that jackass and osbourne show - millions!

Wow this is a deep issue, and one that I think it is impossible to find a perfect solution to. No matter what is put in place, people will complain about (Its human nature, some people will say its fine, but others will say its too much, and others still will say its not enough).

I personally agree that there should be a rating system, what you do or make of it is your own affair, but at least it is a guideline.

I think though that the ratings need to be refined, so that they reflect the target audience. Ok, now Im going to make people mad <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />. Console gamers tend to be a younger audience, this is for a lot of reasons, different style of games for one thing, also expense plays a large part. So we have a younger console gaming audience. PC's are a good deal more expensive and honestly, if they are bought as a gaming machine, its usually for an adult. Ok I know Ive offended a lot of older console gamers here, but I believe its true. The sort of deeper games that appear on the PC would never work on the consoles, and a lot of console games would never find a PC market (To give an example, I hate the fighting games where two oponents face each other for three rounds and kick the crap out of each other. Dull. Also Im crap at them.). Its a different audience. The people who rate games need to see this and understand it when they rate a game. Im not saying ban everything on consoles, just that they need to think that its much more likely to get into the hands of a younger player. (Im going to get comments on this I can see it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />)

That said, it should be more allowable for games to recieve higher ratings in recognition of the fact that there are older gamers out there who want to make up their own minds as to what is acceptable. In other words Id rather an R rated game, that only over 18's can buy, than a banned game. An extreme case, but its happened here in Australia, and probably else where. I have one of the few Aussie copies of Phantasmagoria, and trust me, this game really didnt need to be banned. There are worse movies on the shelf with an M rating.

Egin: I respect your right as a parent to chose what your kids play. Actually I applaud you for paying attention, Kiya is right; for one reason or another, many parents dont. But you have to admit, a rating is a good guideline huh?

There is no perfect solution to this. Ratings are put in place to allow people to make informed deciscions as to what they will play. What we need are the people who rate these things to make informed ratings.

As to the whole violence thing.........people used to take their kids to hangings........or the colleseum.......or numerous other blood sports. Kids watched people die of plague, social pogroms, war.......so many other things. Violence has always been around, it will always be around. Humans are a violent animal. This does not justify violence of course, and the point of ratings is to allow people to decide what they will take in. In other words, "Will the wife and I take the kids to the hanging today or will we go for a walk in the park?".

Excellent post Mandrake, I have nothing to add.

Let's write to esrb a collective letter, suggesting to make their rating system more informative.
Let's form an NGO which will deal with games-gamers-ratings issues. Do you know if such non-profit non-governmental organizations exist?

This can contribute even to raising parents awareness to games and to violence issues.

Thats a good idea Egin, I think an independant body adding input to what the government decides would be of value. That way parents, especially parents who are gamers themselves, could add their thoughts and input to how suitable a game is.

Yeah this is prejudice towards people sheparding younger people. But really if you arent doing that then you are only making up your mind for yourself as an adult already.

yes, many people just say, "o, who cares; my kids won't do that". They need to watch those shows and play the games themselves to see if its okay for there kids. I saw 8 Mile recently, and I thought it was cool. then later, my nephew walked into the room going on about how this same kid had seen 8 Mile, good movie, but uh, adult movie, not kid movie.