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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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1) Random encounters - Ehh, maybe - if it is rather rare and not that time consuming, fine. If it turns into Pokemon or Final Fantasy, no. 2) Night and day cycle - Personally don't care. Either is fine. 3) Camping where you are, dungeon, woods etc. - Agreed. 4) No height advantage in combat - Mmmmh... Don't have much of an opinion. I do like the idea of tactical spots like height difference though. :x 5) No enemy HP bloat - Honestly not sure what that is. :x I remain neutral. 6) limited fast travel - Hmm... Maybe. Depends on how limited. 7) less consumerbles for trash mobs - Don't really mind, but don't care if it is changed. 8) less ground effects - I like ground effects though.  BUT! If it is directly opposing to what the spells are supposed to be like (like the firebolt / fireball example by Ned above) - then yes. That should be corrected. 9) dice rolled attributes on character creation - Don't mind either way. 10) food per character per day (camping requirements aka supplies) - I'll consider it if you give my ranger the option to fish. xd Please no arrow-supply though. q _ q 11) More short rests - Don't mind either way. 12) Traps, crafting and setting of (no limit) - Could be fun as long as it is not overwhelming. :x
Hoot hoot, stranger! Fairly new to CRPGs, but I tried my best to provide some feedback regardless! <3 Read it here: My Open Letter to Larian
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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As the title says,
1) Random encounters
2) Night and day cycle
3) Camping where you are, dungeon, woods etc.
4) No height advantage in combat
5) No enemy HP bloat
6) limited fast travel
7) less consumerbles for trash mobs
8) less ground effects
9) dice rolled attributes on character creation
10) food per character per day (camping requirements aka supplies)
11) More short rests
12) Traps, crafting and setting of (no limit)
That's it pretty much. All with a few threads covering each topic. Anything else? Pretty much the gist ofthe feedback I am reading. 1. only if its optional 2. I would love this but technically speaking its not a must for d&d 3. Yes 4. No - i dont understand what so many have against height advantage - seems realistic enough to me 5. dont mind, what ever works for balance best 6. could someone explain what exactly do you have in mind when you talk about limiting fast travel? 7. Yes 8. less, but they should still have them since its fun when not over used 9. This was already confirmed by swen as something that's happening so its pointless requesting it here 10. Yes 11. Yes 12. dont mind, what ever works
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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An option to camp overnight in a dungeon with an option to set a guard who does not rest, which removes the chance for an overnight random encounter surprising those asleep, would be cool and add that "chance" element for encounters.
I'm all for the improved realism of carrying food and arrows that need replenished. I always enjoy this added bit of planning. It makes adventures feel like real time is passing, encourages trips back to the main camp or town, and encourages taking stock of supplies in camp.
I think the night time rules in BG III, having it simply be dark when you camp and sleep, is an elegant and ingenious method, and I hope they keep it intact.
Height advantages and ground effects are logical, provide much more tactical consideration, and make the world seem more real. I like it.
Optional dice rolled attributes would be cool.
Traps and crafting them, for rogues, absolutely. Tripwires for camping would be great.
In all the important ways, BG III feels right to me as far as D&D goes. I've played every incarnation of the game since '77. The most important aspects of the game to me are the ability to travel wherever you wish in whatever direction you wish for a sense of real freedom of choice, the ability to creatively approach situations/encounters in different ways and directions, having ONE character that you roleplay as you, and the feeling that npcs are living, breathing beings.
All these things Larian Studio provides in glorious detail, So looking forward to more!
I appreciate your positivity.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2015
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I think players don't understand how advantages are so powerful in D&D and should be something you will spend resources on to get, not only some vertical movement you can easily set up before even combat starts.
That's why I think height shouldn't be an advantage. It's too powerful, a +1 or +2 flat bonus on a single roll would be much better and less impactful.
Last edited by Nyanko; 05/11/20 02:14 PM.
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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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Just some clarification on the "summary" part of the original post. This isn't "my" specific summary but a gist of about 100 threads made from others (myself included however) regarding D&D. I accept that many of these exceptions could be subject to difficulty setting or official mods like what Larian did in DOS2. The HP bloat is reference to the artificially high hit points most creatures and races have been given, especially goblins. Goblins are a pain because they swarm you in much higher numbers BUT they have really low HP like 4-8 unless you get a boss. You can realistically kill 5 goblins with a lv 3 magic missile but there maybe 20 of them. I can understand the HP bloat to prevent overly long turns and I personally don't care. I don't even want spells to be artificially scaled to do more damage as some have hinted at because this will just cause further balance issues. I think players don't understand how advantages are so powerful in D&D and should be something you will spend resources on to get, not only some vertical movement you can easily set up before even combat starts.
That's why I think height shouldn't be an advantage. It's too powerful, a +1 or +2 flat bonus on a single roll would be much better and less impactful. This I do care about and the solution of a +1+2 seems like a good solution. Advantage is REALLY powerful and is a feature of many class feats. These height and backstab advantages are representitive of level 16+ characters in D&D with absolutely no downsides. I can accept "a bonus" from being 6 inches higher than someone but being slightly higher up doesn't give a double whammy advantage - you disadvantage - them + accuracy + backstab for all classes including spellcasters. This single mechanic throws the 5e rule book out the window regardling class benefits. Just like the jump disengage + action. If you disengage an enemy you don't get to attack afterwards, that is why melee classes get close for AOO to stop archers/spellcasters. Classes like rogue get the ability to disengage as a bonus action as part of their kit, as every class can do this currently the rogue is pointless. I missed this from the list as this is a big deal. The trap (12) was me being cheeky. Traps aren't a big thing in 5e but were in previous editions, I just want the ability to trap doors while progressing though a dungeon to prevent sneakies ganking you from behind. Also placing traps around camp os you don't get ambushed while sleeping that you collect in the morning. Just little things that add to "realism". Realism being an immersion thing, D&D is a game of the imagination.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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I agree for some parts, for some others i dont. But i think the main reason is not one or two things. The main reason, this does not feel like DnD for the most part to me is, the completely broken combat system. And take "broken" with a grain of salt. You can always rebalance changes by adjusting opponents. What larian did by blasting enemies health pools to stupid ammounts. What bugs me, is that you get thrown at with features that in DnD are highly valuable and sometimes hard to achieve. As explained in other thread, you basicly have advantage as a passive skill. Its harder not to have advantage, then to have advantage right now, as any melee char gets it for free 99% of the time. And any ranged char with decent movement aswell. What you end up with is fights, where your hitrate is constantly in the high 80s or above. Speaking D20 you generally hit on like a 4 or 5. Combine that with consistent damage output that does not require hitrolls (the hugely buffed cantrips and surface effects) and you can basicly very precisly calculate the outcome of any given option. But in DnD, especially in low level DnD, part of the charm is, that most of the time you have a chance of failure. To me thats the main reason it does not feel like DnD right now, and thats a combination of many homebrew larian rules, that heavily^10 impact the games balance. for your points: As the title says,
1) Random encounters
=> Some like them, some do not. I generally like them in TT games, because the DM can always decide weather a RE would be a fun thing right now or not. I liked pathfinder kingmakers aproach. basicly on every rest outside and travel, you get a small chance of RE. Wich you can work against by camouflaging your camp, spotting the enemy ahead of time and sneakin through etc.
2) Night and day cycle
=> Would not be a must for me. Larian did very well working with lighting in dungeons. So you have many moments where darfvision or light spells come into play.
3) Camping where you are, dungeon, woods etc.
=> Its kind of a hard sell. Though i see where you are coming from, the game cannot react as a DM can. To me it feels also bonkers to rest close to a enemy fortress you attacked and not yet cleared and get away with it. or only get a RE. but thats the closest we got to "realistic" camping in any other pen and paper based game. Also i think the idea of the story driving camp was beautiful. I can very much live with that.
4) No height advantage in combat
=> sign
5) No enemy HP bloat
=> sign, as it would not be necessary if they rebalance closer to DnD.
6) limited fast travel
=> meh. I dont wanna run around for ages. On the tabletop players also call the location they wanna go, and they basicly "fast travel" there, unless something happens on the way. like if im in baldurs gate and want to go to elfsong, i dont roleplay the way. the PCs just get there.
7) less consumerbles for trash mobs
=> yeah, especially fire arrows and sht like that on simple goblins.
8) less ground effects
=sign
9) dice rolled attributes on character creation
=> disapprove. They used the buying mechanic from DnD and i like that. Its also easier to balance the game, as a player may get really nice rolls on the statline (or cheese it by tryin over and over again), and then their game experience might suffer bc they roflstomp everything, especially on low levels. perhaps as option if one likes it. but also this would not increase the "DnD" feeling. I think most ppl nowadays play pointbuy or stat-array systems. rolling abilities is oldskl.
10) food per character per day (camping requirements aka supplies)
=> again. does not change the "DnD" feeling for me. But would be a good way to limit camp cheesing, like kingmaker did it. also remove healing from food. like... "i am a mighty godly blessed cleric, i can heal you." "nah, fk right of, i have got a butcher, he heals more".
11) More short rests
=>sign
12) Traps, crafting and setting of (no limit)
=> dont rly care in terms of "DnD feeling".
Last edited by DuderusMcRuleric; 05/11/20 04:33 PM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Sep 2017
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As the title says,
1) Random encounters
2) Night and day cycle
3) Camping where you are, dungeon, woods etc.
4) No height advantage in combat
5) No enemy HP bloat
6) limited fast travel
7) less consumerbles for trash mobs
8) less ground effects
9) dice rolled attributes on character creation
10) food per character per day (camping requirements aka supplies)
11) More short rests
12) Traps, crafting and setting of (no limit) Agree with almost all of that with some modifications. 2. NIGHT/DAY CYCLE. Essential. Not having one worked in DOS, but it detracts too much from the game in BG3 for resting mechanics and story reasons. The original series had it too, so it feels like a big step down. Also ties into random encounters. 4. ADVANTAGE FLANKING/HIGHER GROUND: Remove as this makes combat too easy and DESTROYS class balance (martial classes buffed so much), but incentivise tactical movement to make combat more interesting. My suggestion: Flanking: +1 (flank) or +2 attack (back). Higher ground: Grant half cover (+2 AC/dex saves) to simulate the defensible aspect of higher ground. Also remove disadvantage on ranged attack roll vs. prone target on lower ground (unrealistic that a prone target is harder to hit when shooting down at them when an erect target in some cases would be a much smaller/harder target). 7. LESS LOOT: Less focus on items in general not only consumables. Right now it is excessive, character defining and diminishes focus on the character. It is also unrealistic and incentivise pack-mule looting which feels like a compulsive chore. Boring! 9. ROLLING ABILITY SCORES: Yes please. Apparently already decided that this will be implemented: https://twinfinite.net/2020/02/baldurs-gate-3-interview/11. REST MECHANIC: Both short and long rest mechanics needs an overhaul. Warlocks are strongly nerfed vs. other casters by much too permissive long rest. 12. TRAPS: No need to further exacerbate the problem with way too many elemental effects/barrelmancy raised in 8). This is another relative buff to martial classes and furthers the imbalance.
Last edited by Seraphael; 05/11/20 04:47 PM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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As the title says,
1) Random encounters
2) Night and day cycle
3) Camping where you are, dungeon, woods etc.
4) No height advantage in combat
5) No enemy HP bloat
6) limited fast travel
7) less consumerbles for trash mobs
8) less ground effects
9) dice rolled attributes on character creation
10) food per character per day (camping requirements aka supplies)
11) More short rests
12) Traps, crafting and setting of (no limit)
1) No, they don't add anything meaningful to the game, just slow down your story progression 2) Maybe? Doesn't really matter to me - I'd rather have a solid schedule for NPC's during the day than split the effort in between night/day 3) No, although I hope the camp will follow us through the game, changing depending how far in the story we progressed. 4) Maybe? I don't mind advantage or +/- static value, but verticality should have a mechanical impact considering its prominence in BG3 5) Don't think there is that much bloat - sure the goblins have it, but treat them as re-skinned bandits. Gnolls, bugbears and other creatures seem more inline with their MM counterparts. 6) Hard No - why waste my irl time to walk through non-story content. You don't narrate every step of your party in 5e, so you effectively fast travel. 7) Maybe? Don't think the are that much of a pain. 8) Ground effects are fine, maybe a bit less of them. Granted, ray of frost shouldn't just create a ice surface, but otherwise I am ok with it. 9) Hard No - how do you plan to balance the game? A DM can scale encounters on if your PC rolled high/low stats, the game can't. And if you want to be powerful - lower the difficulty. 10) No, extra busy work 11) Yes, 2 at least 12) No, in 5e your traps are limited only by your creativity, whereas in BG3 they are limited by what the devs put in the game. So why have something that can never compare to pnp.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2017
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As the title says,
1) Random encounters
2) Night and day cycle
3) Camping where you are, dungeon, woods etc.
4) No height advantage in combat
5) No enemy HP bloat
6) limited fast travel
7) less consumerbles for trash mobs
8) less ground effects
9) dice rolled attributes on character creation
10) food per character per day (camping requirements aka supplies)
11) More short rests
12) Traps, crafting and setting of (no limit)
That's it pretty much. All with a few threads covering each topic. Anything else? Pretty much the gist ofthe feedback I am reading. 1) It's not fun getting rekt by a random encouter. Sure they could be piss easy but what would be the point then? 2) Not necessary but good to have nevertheless 3) Yes, makes sense 4) Height should only provide better line of sight, not give you any other advantage. Abusing shoves is one thing but advantage being the only reliable way how to deal damage is too much. 5) Agreed, there is no reason why a lvl 4 character shouldn't be able to oneshot a basic goblin 6) How limited? Having to walk everywhere is not fun 7) Yes, I don't want my inventory to be be cluttered with that stuff 8) Ground effects should only appear occasionaly or created by certain spells, the game uses them way too much atm 9) Sure why not 10) I don't see any point, how is that fun? 11) Agreed, the game should definitely be more generous with short rests, I'm thinking atleast 3 per day 12) I don't personally see any appeal in that kind of gameplay, but if there is enough demand then sure why not
Last edited by eLeF; 05/11/20 06:49 PM.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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As the title says,
1) Random encounters
2) Night and day cycle
3) Camping where you are, dungeon, woods etc.
4) No height advantage in combat
5) No enemy HP bloat
6) limited fast travel
7) less consumerbles for trash mobs
8) less ground effects
9) dice rolled attributes on character creation
10) food per character per day (camping requirements aka supplies)
11) More short rests
12) Traps, crafting and setting of (no limit). 1) Maybe. If they are meaningful and maybe tied into resting in an unsafe area. Otherwise No 2) Maybe. If it is again tied into resting, 3) Perhaps the environment of the camp can change, and likelihood of random encounters 4) 100%. King of the hill is terrible. I would throw in backstab just for being behind, flanked is better 5) 100%. No bloat and put AC back to intended. Allow people to miss and give spells back their power. 6) Don't like this one. Maybe fast travel takes up more of the day, or has a chance for random encounter. 7) Less consumable in general. Food is abundant OP to heal reducing the need for Health potions. The is so many special arrows, scrolls, potions even at level 1-4, just so abundant and makes getting things mundane. Also limit what special arrows/potions/spell slots enemies have. Give special enemy these special items and a limited amount, not every day goblins 8) 100%. This is not DOS, this is BG3 and D&D 5e. Slipping on ice ending your turn. Firebolt dealing extra 3d4 fire damage. These should be limited to the higher end spells that are meant to dictate the battlefield. Also limit the amount of barrels, don't let PCs stack them up next to enemies to trivialize combat. 9) Sure. Let people create however they want. You can even let people manually put in scores up to 20 if they want to play gods. 10) Yes. As above remove food. Or tie it to camping. Don't make them mini infinite health potions. 11) I agree if this is meant to be more MEANINGFUL short rests... Right now there is no point because you can Long Rest whenever and wherever. This buffs things that reset on long rest and nerfs anything that resets on short rest. There needs to be a system in place to limit Long Rests! This is just the tip of the iceberg. Push is too strong and a bonus action. Disengage needs to be a separate an action from jump. Jump has to be free, not disengage and take up/require movement. So much more!
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Pointless procedurally generated random encounters would really go a long way to making the game feel more like a re-loading simulator
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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The way I would solve "save scumming to avoid random encounters on rest" is this: The roll for the NEXT rest's random encounter happens right after you rest. You have no idea whether or not there will be a random encounter next time, until you actually rest. And when you do, it's too late to save scum it, since the roll already happened long ago.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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But then you have simply made your procedurally generated pointless random encounters unavoidable, which seems like a you have made your game worse, rather than better.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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As the title says,
1) Random encounters
2) Night and day cycle
3) Camping where you are, dungeon, woods etc.
4) No height advantage in combat
5) No enemy HP bloat
6) limited fast travel
7) less consumerbles for trash mobs
8) less ground effects
9) dice rolled attributes on character creation
10) food per character per day (camping requirements aka supplies)
11) More short rests
12) Traps, crafting and setting of (no limit)
1) Only for trying to rest in an unsafe place... Resting is too easy right now. 5ed is balance around multiple encounters between rests. Casters need this to keep them from burning every spell every fight. Instant teleport to a safe place to rest is not DnD. Your DM !@#$ing over your careful plans to try to rest in the dungeon is!! 2) don't care 3) Yes, and this goes with #1. 4) Please! google height advantage... it effects arrow range/power, and endurance from having to run up a hill and then fight. It has no impact on a fire bolt, or most other spells. 5) Please. It breaks balance in game and nerfs casters. 6) Having to walk to the nearest gate to use them would be fine.. 7) I have not noticed this as an issue yet. 8) Yes tone it down please and base it on DnD things instead of DOS2 things. But I love the potential it has for say cone of cold, and fire ball... 9) No thanks. DnD is based on point buy now generally. And if your DM does stat rolls then they only let you roll once... How is a video game only gonna let you roll once? re-rolling till your get three 18s is not DnD, but it is bad game design. 10) don't care. 11) Yes - this is currently a nerf to warlocks. 12) don't care.
Last edited by LodurOfTheSquids; 05/11/20 09:21 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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I would say 6) limited fast travel make sense if there is a possibility of 1) Random encounters, if not it is just a total waste of time. I have another 13th point: - Make the story focused on the player character, not on the Larian's NPC, it is not Larian who are playing the game, it's us. (sure they can if they want to  )
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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As the title says,
1) Random encounters
2) Night and day cycle
3) Camping where you are, dungeon, woods etc.
4) No height advantage in combat
5) No enemy HP bloat
6) limited fast travel
7) less consumerbles for trash mobs
8) less ground effects
9) dice rolled attributes on character creation
10) food per character per day (camping requirements aka supplies)
11) More short rests
12) Traps, crafting and setting of (no limit)
That's it pretty much. All with a few threads covering each topic. Anything else? Pretty much the gist of the feedback I am reading. Wait; do you guys not use ground hazards; consumable and height advantage in your table top games? i agree with some of the other points though.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Jun 2020
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I think it’s quite odd how a lot of people kinda forget that many of the mechanics in the game - you don’t need to use !
Don’t like barrels, don’t use em, don’t like food - don’t eat it, think xyz build is to overpowered don’t use it....
The game is pitching at a wide audience & there is a heap of choice - play it your own way & enjoy it - remember not all things in game were designed with just a particular individual in mind.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
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As the title says,
1) Random encounters
2) Night and day cycle
3) Camping where you are, dungeon, woods etc.
4) No height advantage in combat
5) No enemy HP bloat
6) limited fast travel
7) less consumerbles for trash mobs
8) less ground effects
9) dice rolled attributes on character creation
10) food per character per day (camping requirements aka supplies)
11) More short rests
12) Traps, crafting and setting of (no limit)
That's it pretty much. All with a few threads covering each topic. Anything else? Pretty much the gist ofthe feedback I am reading. 1) Yes. Make the world feel dangerous, alive and less scripted. 2) Yes. I want to steal things, do shady deals and hunt vampires at night. Also, see 1. 3) Yes. Immersion. Let me camp in the Blighted Town after it has been cleared. Or use an abandoned camp site. Or camp with the Tieflings at the Druid Grove. 4) Less height advantage in combat. The full advantage/disadvantage swing is way too much. As is constantly shoving your opponents down. I want to play D&D, not king of the hill. 5) Use D&D stats for monsters 6) Yes, please get rid of free magic teleportation to camp and a rune teleportation system in the game world that is clearly made for the player instead of anyone in Faerun. Immersion again, fourth wall. 7) Yes. And less exploding magic arrows period. 8) Yes. They are annoying and nerf concentration spells to oblivion. Much too abundant. 9) Doesn't work in a crpg where you just roll until you get uber stats. Point of rolling is that you do it once. 10) Long rest should have a gold tax. Solasta has rations and I think it's more tedious than fun. 11) Two or three 12) -
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member
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member
Joined: Jul 2020
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As the title says,
1) Random encounters
2) Night and day cycle
3) Camping where you are, dungeon, woods etc.
4) No height advantage in combat
5) No enemy HP bloat
[...]
Let's re-iterate differently. I mentioned the ruleset, but maybe it's something else. What do you mean exactly by "feel like D&D"? What's your reference, another D&D game, a tabletop game you've played (and that will depend a lot on the DM's style...), the ruleset as described in the Player's Handbook? Because this question is very subjective if you don't set the reference, and you'll get a different answer from everyone.
Last edited by Redglyph; 06/11/20 09:23 AM.
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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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As the title says,
1) Random encounters
2) Night and day cycle
3) Camping where you are, dungeon, woods etc.
4) No height advantage in combat
5) No enemy HP bloat
[...]
Let's re-iterate differently. I mentioned the ruleset, but maybe it's something else. What do you mean exactly by "feel like D&D"? What's your reference, another D&D game, a tabletop game you've played (and that will depend a lot on the DM's style...), the ruleset as described in the Player's Handbook? Because this question is very subjective if you don't set the reference, and you'll get a different answer from everyone. Feel like D&D - Ever changing world with random events, non-static NPC's that do normal stuff not stand about like lemons doing the same animation for eternity. Make the world "feel" alive and lived in. Move dead bodies or have wild animals eat them or something. The ability to talk to every object isn't realistic, who does that? "Realistic" combat that doesn't envolve throwing 600lb barrels of gunpowder 80 feet and a world that doesn't literally explode where ever you go. Hey look the enemy is coming, quick climb a tree, stack some boxes, stand on a single step we need to be at least 6 inches higher to win. That type of thing. BG1&2 "felt" like D&D. ToEE "felt" like D&D. NWN "felt" like D&D. BG3 does not, not because of the divinity engine either. It doesn't "feel" like D&D because it isn't. BG was released 22 years ago, even though it is dated as f it still gives you the impression of a dynamic world in the D&D universe. After 22 years you expect to move forward not slap a lick of a paint on DDOS2 and call it BG3.
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