Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Raphael and his motives

I propose to discuss this character in this thread. What do you think is his interest in helping us, and what price will he ask for it in the future?

He mentioned our soul but I'm not exactly sure what does it mean in the FR settings

By the way, has anyone tried to agree to a deal with him? What happens in this case?

I don't even consider this possibility for my character, because I want a happy ending to the game. (it doesn't matter if the path is good or evil)

Your companions also suggest you in not dubious terms that "asking for your soul" is probably a red herring and he's actually interested in your tadpole, specifically.

I'm still convinced that these "special tadpole" are somewhat tied to some some big conspiracy involving some other god resurrection or something of that sort.


I didn't try, but I read some comments about it. Apparently he still send you back to your camp with the vague promise you'll be seeing each other in the near future.

Well, Raphael, just like any devil, has only motive: makes you and your party souls his so they can be traded or used in the blood war.

Probably soul at the end of the game. I'm expecting a quest, things we have to do in his favour.

I heard about this blood war before. I think the tiefling that curses a lot mentioned it. What is it exactly and how much one soul worth?

My guess is that he wants our soul because the tadpole might eventually turn us into something that's going to be useful for him to have control over. Whether that is going to be a powerful mindflayer or some other abomination, I have no idea.
But I guess he wants it for the same reason as every other powerful being in the game wants to get to you. I just hope that (eventually) accepting his deal would give you some sort of boon that's unique to him or something.

In the hells one soul is worth one soul coin that can be traded for magic items or used to fuel an infernal machine (think of the art cars from Mad Max: Fury Road). Souls that are released from the soul coins or burned in infernal machines go on to become the lowest level of devil and are used as cannon fodder in the blood war. All devils can move up in rank if they acquire enough soul coins -- the number is unspecified. You start out as the lowest level and if you are cunning enough you can become an imp. Arch devils have a soul quota to meet to remain the ruler of their realms -- the details are worked out with Asmodus and are unique to each of the hells. Some very powerful demihumans can sell their souls and start out a higher rank of devil -- this can either be in their lifetime or as an option for the false (those who betrayed their gods or refused to worship a god)

The Abyss works similarly -- damned souls become manes and if they somehow managed to acquire souls they could become quasits and start moving up by becoming familiars. How the soul is used by the quasit is still not specified in 5th ed. In 1st ed, the mage who took a quasit as a familiar would be in for a nasty surprise when the mage died and the familiar grabbed the wizard's soul and used it to transform into another type of demon -- which prevented quasit-bound wizards from being raised from the dead.

When your soul is taken by a devil, it is reborn as a lesser devil or transformed into a soul coin, like the one you get from the tiefling. As a lesser devil, you fight the blood war against demons on the river styx. As a coin, you can be used by inhabitants of the nine hells as a currency.

Either way, a soul is a valuable asset for devils. And the pacts are used essentially to bribe a creature into giving up their soul after they have enjoyed the gifts offered by their infernal benefactor.

So how many souls would you need to be like a big shot devil? How many souls do you think someone like Raphael have? I'm asking because with the way you describe it (and the same is true for the FR wiki) a soul is not much more than hell dollar. It seems really strange that someone like Raphael would go through all of these theatrics for one soul? Seems like too much work for very small reward

One average soul is worth one cannon fodder troop in the war, or an equivalent pittance of fuel for whatever hellish machinery or infernal magics are employed. More powerful souls can be more valued champions and possibly over time rise to become leaders and generals.

I think Raphael works for Asmodeus, as there is a book in the EA titled "The Devil you know" and it's about Asmodeus.

He clearly wants something (beyond your soul), both Gale and Shadowheart suggest he wants something from you.

He send someone to keep you alive on a certain "cure the tadpole" path, but he doesn't want to do his deal yet for some reasons. Looks like he is waiting for you to reach a certain point/place (Moonrise Tower?) before doing so.

I think he needs you to do something for him in the real world, but actually has nothing to deal in exchange so he's just waiting for you to have exhausted all cure options before he can force you to do it.

The "one dollar" soul coins are usually made out of those who live lawful evil lives and are minted by mammon. The other source is from devils who are defeated on their home plane need and to return to GO without collecting 200 dollars.

The souls that acquired in deals have a greater value (despite what the skeleton says). Deals made by powerful people can start near the top of the hierarchy -- at upper levels say 14 or so you can sell your soul to Asmodus and become a pit fiend on death.

Raphael is both stuck in and free of the infernal hierarchy -- he's half human meaning he can't work his way up the hierarchy but doesn't have to give up souls to a superior to make quota. So if he after souls it's either as soul coins or deals on behalf of someone else. He could be a conduit for another or he just might want to increase his coffers. And it's a bit more than dollar in any sense -- think of whatever the gold coin is for your country.

As to how many? For say a bone devil to move up? I don't think that's ever been specified. I think it would be in the details of the contract with the ruler of the hell.

Edit: didn't see arazhal's post when I replied. Yes, Asmodius would be the most likely end purchaser.

If you played Planescape torment, which plays in a hub world connecting all the various realms, including Baldurs gate, you'd learn a ton about the blood war. Broken down, all the demons are vying for power over the hell domain, and they're engaged in a massive war of gargantuan scale to wipe out their opposing factions. The issue is, that this war has come to a stalemate that is still on going after, I assume, several millenia or eons. As far as I heard, the demons are even willing to aquire mercenaries from outside of their realms, and these affairs are always extremely dangerous and beset by treachery. The war is brutal, excessive and there is no end in sight, and the souls condemned to serve in the blood war, usually do not return from it.


Honestly, I was pretty surprised that this was mentioned at all. I think, Larian is preparing something very exciting, if they've been digging THIS out from the lorebox.

I think spreading Mindflayers are threating the soul supply. Raphael wants you to help.
My opinion is that he will likely be your ally, unless you go full evil of course.

Okay, two more questions. What happens to those who make a deal with a devil? Do they turn to soul coin after the devil fulfill his part, or something else? The wiki says you can free a soul from the coin with "remove curse". What happen to it? Does it turn back to whatever it was before (let's say human) or something else?

And the second question is what about warlocks? Do they turn to a soul coin too?

Remove curse frees the soul from the torment of being burned in an infernal machine but only allows them to become lemures.



Again, depends on the contract. The hells are the boardrooms of major corporations. The sample contract in the Avernus module specifies that you become a pit fiend upon a) reaching level 17 and b) dying. So after 17, no more "raise dead" the character is perma deathed. I can't remember what type of devil the guy who sold out Elterel became but it was very low level and his contract gave him a number of years.

Warlocks do not become coins unless the contract says so and/or they are evil. Doesn't make much sense but in 5th you can be good warlock of the fiend and have your soul go onto mount olympus or similar upper plane.

Oh and a spoiler for the end of the Avernus module:

The game is a "sequel" to the Baldur's Gate: Descent to Avernus module where the Blood War is a big element of the story.

If you talk to Zevlor after entering the grove (I think you need to talk to him in his cave for this), he will mention The Descent...and you'll get an info dump for it.