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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Did you know that the original creators of BG1 and BG2, had begun creating a BG3 that had *nothing* to do with the previous stories, with NONE of the previous characters and was going to be turn-based. LOL
In a very similar way, so they cancelled the project lol. Or at least that's what they were afraid of I guess. Afraid is the wrong word obviously.
Last edited by virion; 08/11/20 05:13 AM.
Alt+ left click in the inventory on an item while the camp stash is opened transfers the item there. Make it a reality.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
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Well, it got cancelled because Black Isle disbanded, mostly.
Also, no, it wasn't going to be turn-based. These were DARK TIMES when turn-based tactical combat was considered a dated mechanic basically unmarketable to a broad audience.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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It was actually the Black Isle / IWD dale group making the black hound. There was some Bioware / Interplay licensing issues and disputes that probably played a part in killing it.
J.E. Sawyer has recently said he never wanted it be called BG3 but BG: Black Hound. Btw, did you notice that the stained glass in window in the pub PoE is the same from the BG: Black Hound game? And that you get a stray dog as a pet in that same pub?
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Nov 2020
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Baldur's Gate has been about two man things. 1: Baldur's Gate itself. This will be in the game. It's made clear even in early access. HOWEVER... 2: Bhaal. His FACE is on BG1. And BG2. I had concerns he wouldn't be in BG3 but people are saying he is. Made a thread about Bhaal. See for yourself. https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=730070#Post730070It does seem a bit underwhelming having mindflayers be the main bad guys so far. I'm hoping that changes later in the game. Maybe they'll become potential allies later on for complicated reasons and the party learns to coexist with the parasites instead of fighting for control without turning into mindflayers? It won't be what the mindflayers planned of course but they won't have a choice if the parasites and the people they inhabit are more capable, stronger and effective then a normal mind flayer. Of course if you only fight each other then that will lead to the parasite trying to consume you again. Due to fighting for control instead if being in it together. Is that already a thing? Hosts and parasites that coexist without turning into mindflayers? Likely not in BG lore of course but it wouldn't surprise me if it's been done somewhere in D&D.
Last edited by Taramafor; 08/11/20 07:20 AM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Larian already said that the Dead Three (which includes Bhaal) were behind the big plot of the game. Have a look at this: ![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/yWwdK6z.png)
Last edited by Firesnakearies; 08/11/20 08:38 AM.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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That's per person for sure, not enjoying BG1 combat at all atm. I could walk down stairs, get some coffee, and these dorks would still be swinging away.
Yep. I've never understood why so many people say the combat in the original BG games was so great. I mean, it was fun at the time, but at the time I didn't know any better. And then they say the combat in Planescape: Torment is so much "worse" than BG, but that boggles my mind as well, since it's the same damn combat. It wasn't even fun back then. I only played BG2 when it came out and I recall the arena fight in the copper coronet where my dual-wielding bard would swing away endlessly. As would the enemy. Even at level 7 some classes simply could not engage in melee. Nobody understand that back then. However the enemies misses as well and since it was real-time it was hard to keep up with misses and hits and there were 6 people in the group multiplying your hit chances. Had it been really turnbased it would have been unbearable. Which interestingly is precisely why this game feels so slow. One attack at a time at 45%-95% hit chance. Many players still do not like that. In any case, BG1 and 2 were not successful because their combat was adhering to the rules, but because of how the game presented itself to the player. You hade the fantasy world full of the known tropes, lovely drawn backgrounds and maps, and a good (BG1) to excellent story (BG2). Just picture the best DM you can find and you have the essence of BG. That felt enticing to the PnP crowd that saw their wet dreams come to life, while the gamers were drawn into a very immersive RPG that could mesmerise them as well.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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Eh, I think it's quite a stretch to say that the most replayed game in video game history didn't have compelling combat. I mean really  Check out the beamdog forums -- people are playing the game right now. Today. At this moment. The story hasn't changed but people can't get enough of it. ToEE was turn based and not at all unbearable. In fact the combat was better than any D&D game to date. (too bad they forgot to include a story) Oh and we need six people. Period. But that's another thread.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Nov 2020
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I play these games for the story and choices and branching paths. Not for the combat. BG2's combat IS outdated. But the IMMERSIOn in the game keeps people hooked. And you can transform and shapeshift and have sieges. So yes, PLanescape Torment is underwhelming and worse in that regard. Plus it's clearly an unpolished game for so many reasons. Good but very flawed.
BG2: Drow city. Demons. Dragons. Werewolves. Spells with raining down meteors among other things.
Neverwinter NIght's 1: SIEGES at times. Transforming. Shapeshifting. Even into a DRAGON. Even if the combat and constant "whack whack whack" gets old you're going to enjoy seeing that.
Planescape Torment: A few skirmish fights. That's... basically it. And the story is underwhelming compared to BG2 and Neverwinter NIghts 1 as well. Since we're going through HELL. And back. And then some. With tons of characters spread out all over with missions and interesting things to say instead of "a few NPCs". How do you even compete against that? Simply put, you can't. Even BG3 has to compete against itself. There better be demons and dragons we're not forced to fight again! Depending on what the player chooses to do of course.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
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[quote=Sven_]way too much random low value loot cluttering our inventories in the most annoying way.
Just like Baldur's Gate. All those drops of standard stuff (every enemy dropped their weapons and armor) I did never pick up. I was amused to find out though that unlike me, many did. Those games must have been a pain in the butt to play for anybody who did, given the limited inventory.  Fortunately, you were never required to loot everything. I'm replaying Icewind Dale too at the moment, and all I pick up is the unique stuff, nothing else. Clearly this was never meant to be all looted, rather, it was meant to "simulate" that, well, opposition carries gear too. Why should it magically disappear once they drop dead?
Last edited by Sven_; 08/11/20 11:13 AM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
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I just wish they would stop taking so many liberties with D&D rules and making changes that fundamentally change the gameplay.
All the successful D&D crpg's have been very faithful to tabletop rules BG, IWD, NWN... And their take on Faerun has felt credible and immersive. The ones that "adapted" to be a better videogame, not so much. Sword Coast Legends failed horribly. And the action RPG's weren't that big either. You don't need the DOS gimmicks to make a wildly successful D&D crpg. You just need 5e rules and a great story. Immersion is much more important with this one.
Likely BG3 will be much better and more successful than the bad example above but there's still too much of the comical divinity gameplay in BG3. It's distracting and unnecessary. Larian can put their stamp on the franchise with far less. And they already have with the player agency and many permutations to everything.
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addict
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Joined: Jul 2019
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I just wish they would stop taking so many liberties with D&D rules and making changes that fundamentally change the gameplay.
All the successful D&D crpg's have been very faithful to tabletop rules BG, IWD, NWN... And their take on Faerun has felt credible and immersive. The ones that "adapted" to be a better videogame, not so much. Sword Coast Legends failed horribly. And the action RPG's weren't that big either. You don't need the DOS gimmicks to make a wildly successful D&D crpg. You just need 5e rules and a great story. Immersion is much more important with this one.
Likely BG3 will be much better and more successful than the bad example above but there's still too much of the comical divinity gameplay in BG3. It's distracting and unnecessary. Larian can put their stamp on the franchise with far less. And they already have with the player agency and many permutations to everything.
I really don't know if their mindset is that they need to take liberties so that it is a better video game. Because as a tabletop player I love 5e combat, and it seems to me to be very easy to be implemented 100% RAW in a video game, again, Solasta is doing it. What Larian should've done was when the project was in pre-development they should've bought sets of 5e books for every employee to take home and play as homework, I don't how else you can get to know the system you are suposed to be implementing. EDIT: actually Wizards should've given them plenty of books for research.
Last edited by Danielbda; 08/11/20 02:59 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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I just wish they would stop taking so many liberties with D&D rules and making changes that fundamentally change the gameplay.
All the successful D&D crpg's have been very faithful to tabletop rules BG, IWD, NWN... And their take on Faerun has felt credible and immersive. The ones that "adapted" to be a better videogame, not so much. Sword Coast Legends failed horribly. And the action RPG's weren't that big either. You don't need the DOS gimmicks to make a wildly successful D&D crpg. You just need 5e rules and a great story. Immersion is much more important with this one.
Likely BG3 will be much better and more successful than the bad example above but there's still too much of the comical divinity gameplay in BG3. It's distracting and unnecessary. Larian can put their stamp on the franchise with far less. And they already have with the player agency and many permutations to everything.
I really don't know if their mindset is that they need to take liberties so that it is a better video game. Because as a tabletop player I love 5e combat, and it seems to me to be very easy to be implemented 100% RAW in a video game, again, Solasta is doing it. What Larian should've done was when the project was in pre-development they should've bought sets of 5e books for every employee to take home and play as homework, I don't how else you can get to know the system you are suposed to be implementing. EDIT: actually Wizards should've given them plenty of books for research. Nobody says that it is impossible, the only question is whether they should. From the interviews, you can learn that they initially tried to implement the most accurate rules and then changed those that did not work or were not fun in the game. The game is not intended for D&D players only, so some changes had to be made to make the fight more enjoyable for the public.
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addict
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Joined: Oct 2020
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the veils of nostalgia: the combat in BG1 was enjoyable and ultra faithful to D&D rules
the combat in BG1: kiting around a bear while missing with a shortbow for 20 minutes
Last edited by alice_ashpool; 08/11/20 03:27 PM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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I hate how much cheese there is in this game and how you are forced to use it to win, not like in baldurs gate 2 which was 100% cheese free *sets a hundred traps to kill demogorgon*
Last edited by alice_ashpool; 08/11/20 03:30 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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I hate how much cheese there is in this game and how you are forced to use it to win, not like in baldurs gate 2 which was 100% cheese free *sets a hundred traps to kill demogorgon* Lol funny but true
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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I hate how much cheese there is in this game and how you are forced to use it to win, not like in baldurs gate 2 which was 100% cheese free *sets a hundred traps to kill demogorgon* Lol funny but true *3 project images in a chain contingency* ah, just as gary gygax intended
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addict
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addict
Joined: Jul 2019
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I hate how much cheese there is in this game and how you are forced to use it to win, not like in baldurs gate 2 which was 100% cheese free *sets a hundred traps to kill demogorgon* Enemies cheesed a lot as well. Specially dragons, liches and every fucking mage in BG2. Chain contingency -> every protection spell in the game -> time stop
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addict
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Joined: Oct 2020
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each of my project images are now summoning planetars and using lvl-9 inventory scrolls
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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I just wanna say fuck the TOB mages and their constant time stop
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addict
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addict
Joined: Mar 2019
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I just feels like the people who designed the combat didn't fully understand or appreciate D&D combat. Well, and we know this for a fact because Larian told us they didn't like D&D combat. Did they say that? Or was it that they didn't like combat in previous D&D crpgs? I'm pretty sure it was the latter. This is the result of a number of threads being merged that I wish hadn't been merged. I get the desire to clean up but I tried to post in constructive feedback threads and avoid trolling threads and an unintended consequence of the merger is it harder to tell which comments are which. To be clear, I'm all for the creative solutions -- pushing boulders, breaking beams, bringing down chandeliers. I like that they've incorporated sneaking and surprise. What I don't want is repeat of DOS2 surface strategies and for those strategies to dominate and / or replace class features. I specifically want surface effects on cantrips to eliminated and the HP bloat / AC lowering to be changed and for barrels to be less common and weigh more. Throw the bottle of water, hit it with ray of frost cantrip and the enemies are all prone is the sort of thing I'm talking about. It's not a creative solution, it's standard tactic that relies on homebrew rules and is stronger than any class feature at that level. I intend this as constructive criticism. The interview with Swen has been posted many times but I can't find it right now. The upshot is that they made a game that followed the 5th ed rules, played it and didn't find it much fun. Then they started changing the rules until they found something fun The "not fun" came down to "in 5th edition you miss often". So they lowered AC. They added height advantage. But this come from a misunderstanding. You use class features -- bless spells, bardic inspiration, true strike ect to be able to hit. Now with the changed rules a jump to higher level is a better way to get advantage than is properly using your cleric, bard and wizard in the first round. If I can find the interview(s) I'll post it but I'm guessing others will beat me to it. There is nothing in there about them not liking D&D combat.
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