Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General How accurate is ruleset implementation?

Everybody be polite, please. Thanks.

This is not a 24th century holodeck run by a super-smart AI which can seamlessly create endless adventures and reactivity on the fly.

You are not allowed to swim across a river if the game designers did not put anything on the other side. You are not allowed to take a shovel and dig a tunnel straight down if the game designer didn't put in the required assets. You are not allowed to chop down trees to build a ramp or a raft if the game designers did not consider that.

Rules changes ARE necessary - that's a fact. If rule changes are unacceptable to you, then you will never, ever, be satisfied with anything except the pen and paper version.

You are free to go, no one is holding you. Careful not to let the door hit you on the way out! See you next Tuesday!

Ok, first of all, I want that holodeck. Secondly, no one is disagreeing with the claim that some changes are necessary because a tabletop is not a pc game. But not all changes are equal, or positive. Or negative either.
Or necessary.

ENOUGH.

As i've said, rule changes made due technology limitations are completely different than arbitrary rule changes.

So, I will reform my question to make easier to people understand. Temple of elemental evil is the most faithful D&D adaptation ever. Sword Coast Legends, the less faithful. ToEE is not a perfect translation of the ruleset, but is the best adaptation possible. Will BG3 be more close to SCL or ToEE????

We all know that an perfect adaptation can't work due technology limitations. We are talking about blatant non necessary changes. Like happened on most D&D video games adaptations.

TOEE was a buggy mess - but a massive pity as they nailed it
Sword Coast Legends - loved that game, hated by purists but im a D&D fan of many years - if it has a D&D vibe i'll enjoy it.

BG3 - this is the game ive waited 20-25 years for - annoys me to see still the purists bickering over every little rule not being in the game - stick to pen & paper if you cant see the difference between the 2 mediums. We could be on the verge of the best D&D game ever produced - I believe with Larian & their passion (& funds) & our feedback (yes even from the purists...) this could be epic.

I am really hopeful too about the game. Frankly, this title can be the best DND game ever put forward in terms of recreating the tabletop feels. Still it wont be the same as the tabletop and thats cool. In BG 1 and 2 there are significant alterations on the rules, due to the limits of the games and they are still good dnd games. I think this game will be largely better in this respect. I try to think about it (cause I am too a rules nerd and prefer everything as in raw) as the small rules changes are Larian the DM's house rules.

What in tarnation are you talking about? Would you call reactions and legendary actions "little rules"?

Reactions are in, in a sense. I am curious to see how they will work (I think they will give another layer of strategy to how to set a character reactions in the given round). Have you heard something about legendary actions? Cause I am unaware of any mention. They could be implemented, like as scripted events in boss fights that occur... I dont know. What do u guys think?

What in tarnation are you talking about? Would you call reactions and legendary actions "little rules"?[/quote]

To be fair - I haven't played table top for about 15 odd years now - its more a trend across games that are D&D associated - decent games get pulled apart for seemingly outlandish departures from certain rules that to certain quarters of the D&D fanbase are unforgivable & somehow destroy the game - in my opinion that's just over the top. We all know that a PC game can only get so close to the imagination of a human mind playing table top - it has humans designing it but it is limited largely due to budgets & time.

I want this game to be a success because the more successful it is the more it will sell & we will get more D&D titles - again my opinion, this could be an epic game - but it is not table top - it is a computer game version & it will have limitations. Larian Studio's are having a decent crack at implementing as much of the 5E rules as possible (i dont know them & I dont really care as long as its the D&D I know - epic adventures, great stories, iconic races, classes, spells & combat - rules change but the underlying themes dont).

I get that eveybody has an opinion about how rules & gameplay work best & shaping a game they want - but a game can be fantastic without being 100% rulebook accurate.

I'm stoked that the weapons & armour change as you equip them & it shows in the cutscenes - if i dont have a pop up menu for different reactions vs having to select & be stuck with my choice for a turn - its just part of the game .....i'll survive.

To be fair - I haven't played table top for about 15 odd years now - its more a trend across games that are D&D associated - decent games get pulled apart for seemingly outlandish departures from certain rules that to certain quarters of the D&D fanbase are unforgivable & somehow destroy the game - in my opinion that's just over the top. We all know that a PC game can only get so close to the imagination of a human mind playing table top - it has humans designing it but it is limited largely due to budgets & time.

I want this game to be a success because the more successful it is the more it will sell & we will get more D&D titles - again my opinion, this could be an epic game - but it is not table top - it is a computer game version & it will have limitations. Larian Studio's are having a decent crack at implementing as much of the 5E rules as possible (i dont know them & I dont really care as long as its the D&D I know - epic adventures, great stories, iconic races, classes, spells & combat - rules change but the underlying themes dont).

I get that eveybody has an opinion about how rules & gameplay work best & shaping a game they want - but a game can be fantastic without being 100% rulebook accurate.

I'm stoked that the weapons & armour change as you equip them & it shows in the cutscenes - if i dont have a pop up menu for different reactions vs having to select & be stuck with my choice for a turn - its just part of the game .....i'll survive.


[/quote]

Speaking of weapons, do we know which weapon types made it?

Is there even enemies with legendary action in the game? The original level cap was 10, the only MM creature with legendary action below-equal 10 CR are Unicorns and Aboleth and the later are Underdark/water creatures...and the Underdark is part of Act 1.

That was my first thought when somebody mentioned legendary actions that they are rarely a thing in mid level adventurers like ours in BG3 going to be.

But who knows anything can happen, Larian can add their own homebrew creatures.

On the other hand, we are fighting the little brain thingies at level one. I don't think we will have to wait until level 7 to see our first mindflayer either. This will probably be a deadly adventure with no hand-holding, so we may face some op enemies in full release.

Beholders and advanced mindflayers feature them, as do some demons? and I find it difficult to think that they'd work at a too low level. The Underdark is place for at least mid level.

The crashed ship enemies are all weakened version because they were wounded by the attack/crash. I don't expect to see that happen too much often in the game. The opposite is more likely, low adventuring creatures getting their CR bumped with improved stats/abilities.

ToEE was a masterpiece, not a "buggy mess".

And SCL is extremely boring. You don't even need to be a purist to hate it. Liches on lv 6, cooldowns, no skill check, low lethality "5 fireballs to kill weaklings" combat...

https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/the-temple-of-elemental-evil-review/1900-6075564/

Original game review for ToEE. Paragraph one talks about it's buggy nature. ToEE was a huge buggy mess that was heavily patched by the modding community. It wasn't a masterpiece by any measure.

You know what game is a masterpiece? The trilogy of Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn, and the Throne of Bhaal. The quintessential cRPG experience that defined the genre for DECADES. And, like it or not, Siege of Dragonspear is an excellent canonical entry sanctioned by WotC that resolves plot holes and expands on the lore of the the Dragonspear Wars. It failed because of rabbid fans who pilloried Amber Scott (whose own excessive response rightfully marked her a pariah) and Beamdog for superficial political reasons.

ToEE was a fun but ultimately forgettable and generic RPG that did nothing exemplary in any way, and that no one tried to copy because of how lack luster it really was. The only people who talk about ToEE today are Larian fans defending BG3 design choices. You can read all about the debate here:

http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=652913

Buggy or not, masterpiece or not, ToEE implemented a lot of cool features for a TB game and Larian could pick some of ToEE ideas like concurrent turns to improve the gameplay. But the reason that I don't post on TB vs RtWP forum is cuz I think that the debate is pointless. At this stage, Larian will not re write the game to please RtWP fans. Expect it is like expecting that they will re write the game to be 2e. It would be amazing IMO but will never happens. Larian also always wanted to make TB games but due publisher pressures, made mostly real time games. The decision to make TB was probably made before they wrote an single line of code and now, they will not change their mind. It is too late. And if you like RtWP, there are a lot of games to play with RtWP combat.

TBH ToEE was FUN. Bugs or not.