Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
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Originally Posted by Soul-Scar
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by biomag
Pretty much none of the balancing changes that Larian made helped the game (exception being the ranger). I really wish they would stick closer to the 5e combat and balancing because these changes lead to requests like this. Advantage/Disadvantage cantrips are too underpowered suddenly because you get advantage/disadvantage far too easily as it is in the game. But breaking more systems to balance out other broken things is not the way to go, especially when you had a far more solid system to begin with before you started tweaking it with extremely short sighted changes.


This, exactly.



The exact opposite of this. I think that most of Larian's changes DO help the game. They might not help it for fanatical 5e rules purists who somehow believe that 5e is the One System To Rule Them All and that it can do no wrong, but they help it for the much larger number of regular folks who know nothing about D&D and just want a video game that feels good to play.


No mate D&D 5e is the evolution of 47 years experience balancing a combat system that has been successfully imported into 30 years of PC games. Pretty sure 10 minutes input from a DOS2 intern isn't going to improve the D&D 5e combat system. With one or two "slight" changes to please DOS fans they managed to screw up the entire class advantage system. The current mechanics don't resemble 5e implementation. You cannot pass judgement on a combat system if it hasn't been tried yet. As BG3 is supposed to be based off the 5e ruleset I don't think it is unreasonable to ask to...you know... implement it first.

If they try the 5e rules and it sucks balls.....make changes, no complaints here. I actually don't care about barrelmancy (make barrels heavy) or cantrips that do 2d4+1d6 AoE fire damage or ray of frost ice patch, makes them useful at higher levels NOT 5e rules. The high-ground/backstab advantage/disadvantage system needs changing to flank/cover bonus of +1+2. It needs to change so barbarians, rogues etc. get proper use of their skillset.

Cantrips like bladeward are difficult to balance, adding an extra round would be ok as it seems a harsh use of an action otherwise. Free action bladeward would be op 50% DR 100% of the time. True strike sucks because high ground gives you the same bonus and they dont stack.



And yet 5e was designed for tabletop and WotC has greenlighted the project, so not sure how you get to decide "The current mechanics don't resemble 5e implementation."

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Originally Posted by RumRunner151
Originally Posted by Soul-Scar

No mate D&D 5e is the evolution of 47 years experience balancing a combat system that has been successfully imported into 30 years of PC games. Pretty sure 10 minutes input from a DOS2 intern isn't going to improve the D&D 5e combat system. With one or two "slight" changes to please DOS fans they managed to screw up the entire class advantage system. The current mechanics don't resemble 5e implementation. You cannot pass judgement on a combat system if it hasn't been tried yet. As BG3 is supposed to be based off the 5e ruleset I don't think it is unreasonable to ask to...you know... implement it first.
[...]


And yet 5e was designed for tabletop and WotC has greenlighted the project, so not sure how you get to decide "The current mechanics don't resemble 5e implementation."

Being greenlit doesn't guarantee that the final product is good and/or representative. I can think of many movies/games (cough cough Star Wars in both regards) that were allowed to happen but were regarded as mediocre at best.

Also Larian has changed many rules. BG3 does not match 5e RAW. What's up for debate is whether Larian's changes make the game more or less fun.

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Originally Posted by RumRunner151


And yet 5e was designed for tabletop and WotC has greenlighted the project, so not sure how you get to decide "The current mechanics don't resemble 5e implementation."


Wow really dude laugh? How I get to decide? Ill say it again. Height advantage, you know being 1 step higher than someone, adds advantage +5 to the person on high ground and disadvantages to the person lower. This is a lv9 spell advantage and is better than EVERY CLASS ADVANTAGE IN D&D with no downsides. This means a ranged fighter at Lv 1 has a better or similar hit advantage moving up ONE step than a level 20 ranged fighter with class bonuses at ground level. As these bonuses don't stack said lv 20 ranged fighter is just a lv 1 fighter "up one step" with more hit points.

Free disengage and backstab advantages are part of the rogue skillset, every class can do it in BG3 so a rogue is just a really a crap fighter with low HP. Add slight of hand and stealth to a ranger and the rogue class is totally cosmetic. Imposed advantage and disadvantage is gained by most of the spells, perks and skills of every class and subclass in PHB. What is the point of these class benefits and skills if you can run up a step with any class and gain these bonuses for free against all targets?

AoO or attack of opportunity for fighters is how they fight mages and archers. They run close and wait for the mage/archer to move knowing when they do they get a free attack. What is the point when said target can just jump/run disengage, run up a step and gain advantage/backstab against the fighter? Yay go fighter!

I don't decide, Larian does. If Larian fundamentally change the way every single class in game operates with respect to D&D 5e then is it D&D 5e? If every class behaves and is used differently in BG3 compaired to the D&D 5e TT would it be fair to say it doesn't resemble the D&D 5e ruleset? With all the barrels and AoE stuff added to these alien height advantage mechanics moves it further away from D&D 5e. In fact the fight mechanics are closer to DOS in its current state.

Changing the mechanics further to compensate and keep the homebrew crap will simply make a big mess. Honesly I would be happy if Larian made D&D mode and a DOS2 mode. I am not going to pretend it isn't a big deal when all the tactics, strategy, classes and game mechanics are replaced with a bloody step. Some players like cheesey king of the hill mode, all power to them. Seriously it is fun for a battle or two but becomes a big yawn when all you are doing is looking for a step or ledge to shoot off. I believe changing these mechanics will be better for everyones game experience not just those who like D&D TT.

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What a non D&D PP player and a non Larian's games ultra fan think of it :

D&D combats = ressource management and strategic choices
BG3 combats = high ground and backstab (and surfaces if you wish)

Hope they'll find a better compromise between both worlds because I'm not looking for "funny WTF" combats when I'm playing a D&D video game.

BG3 combats could be way more strategic and interresting with more D&D. Larian's mechanics are awesome but they should improve the experience, not overlay everything else.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 17/11/20 07:50 AM.

French Speaking Youtube Channel with a lot of BG3 videos : https://www.youtube.com/c/maximuuus
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I'm not a D&D player myself and my fandom of BG1&2 isn't that huge. Still its even for me absolutely obvious how Larian's changes have negativly impacted the balance of BG3's combat. The changes seem small if you don't know the classes/rules, but the impact is undeniable. Every change Larian made turned out to be unbalanced and better than what original rules and class abilities offer. Your strongest option are always their additions - barrel- & hordemancy are the ultimate damage dealers, disengage + jump are in most cases the most efficient and smart movement and sneak while enemy is in combat + bonus action shove is an auto kill in many situations. Also race to the top is the most efficient combat style.

The changes are - sorry for the expression - a clusterf... and turned this game for me into a extremely boring and repetitive combat system like DOS2.

Last edited by biomag; 17/11/20 05:25 PM.
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