Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Why not implement customizable difficulty options?

Monster Manual stats are for noob DMs. Real DMs customize their shit. And then they say...

I wouldn't call Larian DM a noob, but rather "lacking experience to create balanced and challenging multi-encounter adventuring day... experience".
But my definition also qualifies them to use stuff from MM ahead of all else.

Besides PF Kingmaker which is the king of these toggles, i really liked what Pillars 2 did with Magran's fires, somes of those toggleable options gave the player to chance to tweak certain rules around resting, tweaked food mechanic, downed characters died after some turns spent downed, added weapon durability, added timed quests where story reasons backed it up, weather tweaks etc. it really helped to customize my playthroughs. Given i also intend to play through BG3 multiple times (to try out more races, classes) i would prefer to have some options to alter the core gameplay mechanics a little bit every time i do.
Also as per their new community update it seems Solasta joins the club:
"We've decided to offer a wide variety of options that you'll be able to customize on your own (on top of the preset you can choose from if you want to keep it simple), such as adding modifiers to attacks, saving throws and ability checks, harder AIs that use their powers more often (still limited by the tabletop rules) and target unconscious characters to finish them off, different encumbrance rules - we're even adding weighted dice for those who've prayed extra hard to the RNG gods. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, there will be more for you to play with once we're done with it! "

While at this moment it is both unclear (stuff may change, and there may be leftovers from using the Divinity Engine) and potentially sorta kinda clear (the saves say "Classic" on their difficulty label), it would be really nice if the game were to allow for either choosing from a bigger pool of difficulty settings (like in the NWN games) or fine-tuning it a-la Pathfinder: Kingmaker.
Now, while Kingmaker has its many glaring issues, its implementation of adjustible challenge levels is probably the best in the genre. Having something similar for BG3 is going to address many of the issues players have with how the resting, the fast-travel, the revive mechanic and the rolls work, while some would want to, say, have difficult combat but make skill/ability checks harder, or vice versa.

A short (or not really) draft of the list of settings that could potentially be tweaked:
-- Enemy challenge level (+/- to their HP, AC, Attack and Spell DC) - pretty straightforward as far as making enemies harder/easier in D&D adaptations has always gone;

-- Enemy behaviour (Story - Classic - Tactician) - here's one that could be easily taken from D:OS, as different difficulties did make enemies' behaviour in combat more or less complex. You can have tougher opponents with the previous setting but not have them gang up on your spellcasters at the start of the fight or control you to oblivion;

-- Enemy critical hits (on/off) - straight from NWN where on "normal" difficulty enemy crits didn't register. Cheating? Maybe. But having to reload a fight after taking something like 60+ damage in one hit can be rather annoying (looking at you, Kingmaker);

-- Helping a downed character restores them to 1 HP (on/off) - at the moment you can easily spam-help your downed party members and just constantly bring them back on their feet, which for me personally made the Phase Spider Matriarch fight really derpy in how my characters had a helping-hand-train going every turn after getting one-shot by her. Now if it were to either only stabilize (remove the saving throw until the next damage taken but leave them unconscious, needing a proper healing to get back up) or only add one successful revival roll instead of all three, it would become less abuseable and make having actual healing tools more necessary.

-- Stabilization / recovery on death saves - a tie-in to the previous setting. An alternative to how dying works at the moment could be that successful death saves only prevent the "death points" from accumulating rather than add "life points", and in order to actually prevent the character from bleeding out they need to be stabilized (see above) and healed properly/ be out of combat to get back up (?). Seeing how there are no healer's kits in the game at the moment, it's a bit of a stretch as far as balancing goes, but still;

-- HP threshold for death / death saves - either go back to the old ways (dying upon hitting minus your Constitution score, losing one HP per round unless stabilized) or use the current system. A matter of preference;

-- Skill/Ability check challenge level - also rather straightforward. Tired of all the 15+ you have to roll to persuade someone while wanting to see the content but not feeling like safe-scumming, or getting frustrated at all four of your characters failing to spot traps (irrelevant unless the familiar exploit for search checks gets fixed, but it probably will be) - here's a setting for you;

-- Item identification (on/off) - I mean, it's a staple. For the time being characters just know how every magic item works just by looking at them - no need for an identify spell, or a skill check, or having a merchant do it for you. Having it off will remove busywork for those who don't want to have it around, having it on will please those who like having such a mechanic;

-- Exhaustion (on/off/some different ways it works?) - now this is an interesting one. The characters already have voice lines for needing rest, albeit at the moment they say them after barely any time had passed since their last rest, and there's a potion of vitality in the game which cures fatigue, but the effect itself is not present at the moment. Exhaustion and the passage of time/amount of fights/checks causing it could be a way to limit long rests by only allowing them between certain time periods and when all the short rests for the day are used up. Not exactly elegant, but this is a draft - and I think it's basically universally agreed upon that resting needs to be re-implemented at least somehow;

-- Free fast travel (on/off) - mentioned this one in a post a while ago. Being able to just jump to a fast travel spot out of anywhere destroys the premise of any and all "trap" areas and situations. At least you can't just hop outta combat like in D:OS, but, like in D:OS, you can just blink straight out of a tomb that closed in on you like you have a stone of recall or something. Either there should be more areas where fast travel is disabled (all the dungeons and some places like the sanctuary in the druid grove), or it should only work between rune circles, or there should be random encounters (which would clash with the way the world is designed and potentially ruin level balancing if abused);

-- Food heals / is used as camping rations - a bit of a wild guess on how food can work. There's a lot of it lying around, and it easily replaces healing potions/spells outside of combat if you choose not to abuse ubiquitous long rest. Why not convert it into rations that are used upon resting, which would by itself limit rest-spamming depending on how many food items get used/what their individual "food value" is. Add cooking on top of this which provides day-long bonuses and makes food more efficient by converting it into proper meals, and you have a solid system that allows for experimentation (cooking in D:OS was fun and food could be quite powerful even as short-term consumables, while Kingmaker makes the entire camping mechanic revolve around what you cook and which bonus you wish to have). A potential downside is how cluttered and awkward the inventory and camping (if there will be one) UI may become, but having an option to add a bit of complexity is always nice for those who value it - Deadfire's camping and food implementation, for example, made no sense before one of the patches added the optional option for spoiling rations (and, for masochists, only recovering health on rest and only with cooked food).

Yeah, it sure wasn't short. I am curious to see other opinions and suggestions, though.

I agree PF Kingmaker is the king of these toggles (one of the most requested one i remember was the encumbered matters or not in movement toggle), and as far as i heard Solasta also plans to take a similar route, they just gave some hints in their new update. I also really liked what Pillars 2 did with Magran's fires, some of those toggleable options gave the player to chance to tweak certain rules around resting (especially how often spells and actions are refilled), tweaked food mechanic and added food spoiling, whether downed characters permanently died after some turns spent downed or not, added equipment durability, degradation and repair, added timed quests where story reasons backed it up, weather tweaks, special resistances for monsters, hidden enemy stats without identification etc. all of these additions were really clever and they really helped to customize my playthroughs and i think most of these would be beneficiary for BG3 as well to have a toggle for. Given i also intend to play this game multiple times as it looks really cool (and i would like to try out more races, classes) i would prefer to have some options to alter the core gameplay mechanics a little bit every time i do. I know there are mods coming but its just not the same, sometimes mods tend not to be updated every time with the game and usually they also have glitches and clashes with official content (i like mods, there were some magnificent mods made for DOS2, but i prefer to have the option to officially customize the core gameplay with little tweaks for my first playthroughs).

I think a lot of the debates on the forum could be settled amicably by implementing some toggles. Pathfinder: Kingmaker has a lot of options there for example.

Well it seems (i know, i know) Solasta indeed thinks making the game more accessable to everyone (hardcore dnd fans and casual players) will be achievable through many toggles implemented to tweak rules and difficulty as you wish:

Yeah, I read that update, too.

They are doing a great job! I bought the game a week ago and can't wait to try it!

I'm always supportive of having more options.
But there is one problem with large number of options - it is VERY hard to balance game around all combinations of those options. Usual way to overcome that is to define few "predefined groups" of options, like "Easy","Normal","Hard" etc ... and balance those by tuning all options accordingly for that group. And when player decide to change some predefined option, they accept risk of slight disbalance.

I see that Solasta is doing similar thing, with 5 "Story modes" predefining large number of options, and possibility for player to customize them further - which looks good.

Well doing the balancing for yourself kinda is the whole point of having extensive difficulty options like that. What would help of course would be a solid basis like a well balanced "normal" difficulty and players can take that in any direction as they like, from ridiculously easy to unfair hard.

Yeah, I'm all about this right now, but what about these Difficulty Level Settings:

1. Story Mode = Backstab, High Ground, Barrel Throwing, and all the things we have now. Loaded Dice by default, more inspiration points by default, unlimited long rests, etc. Game doesn't change much from current state except maybe more inspiration points handed out like candy at Halloween for those who hate failing on dialogue rolls and inspiration can be used for combat too so players can gain extra help in combat. Also, maybe less enemies in various areas like the Necromancer Lair, Spider Lair, etc.

2. D&D 5e Mode = Actual 5e rules implemented. No backstab or higher ground, etc. Potions are Actions. No food during combat. True RNG. No loaded dice. Enemies have true 5e stats like accurate HP and AC. Disengage is an Action. I mean full blown D&D 5e experience. Game is harder because it is full blown rules with no cheese and nerf.

3. Dungeon Master Mode = Like 5e except even harder for those who are insanely good. This mode would be for people who truly know all the weaknesses of every enemy and they can exploit them really well. More enemies with more HP and AC and so forth.

i see this got moved. Oh well. Let me know what you think. I did not read all your posts here. I created my own and it was merged, so sorry if someone else had something similar.

Larian cheese systems and the term "story mode" as it is typically used do not go together. So it should be: Larian cheese mode, and then a separate story mode that excludes Larian cheese but also simplifies some D&D 5e rules to make combat easier overall.

Sounds heavenly. <3

If you are hoping that you are going to be able to customize things like surface effects, shoving, and barrels, you may as well give up now. Not going to happen. Major battles are almost certainly being balanced around these features. Imagine how easy the goblin battles would be without the explosive arrows. This is the game we have and we are going to have to enjoy it for what it is.

Why would you remove highground ? What would be the point of taking a good position in your system ?

I'm all for a better balance and various difficulty level but what you ask is a complete other system with bonus actions that becomes actions depending your choice (UI ?), a useless verticality except to shove, specific creatures for every mode, an action to heal (maybe) 1HP,...
Being 100% faithfull to the rules is not necessary and as you described it, it looks boring to me.

The game has to be balanced first and it has to have strong foundations.
Tweaks could then increase/decrease the difficulty (i.e +1/+2/+3 for highground, +0/+1/+2 ennemie's AC, +0/+1/+2 to allied ST or such things, barrel weight 100%,70%,20%,...).

Even Pathfinder that has A LOT of options to customize your experience don't allow players to custom what is action and what is a bonus action (Don't know the EN words for Pathfinder but you get the idea).
What you ask looks completely unreasonnable and would require to balance the game differently for all difficulty.

I agree, I'd like to see an option to create a "custom" difficulty setting like in Pathfinder. It was great to be able to tailor the diffirent options, instead the usual difficulty presets games have. But I think Larian needs to put more focus on enemy ai, because that impacts difficulty in general (regardless of stat tweaks) and currently e.g. stealth detection is lacking. That was also the issue in Pathfinder; all the tweaks were stats, but even on higher difficulties enemies would usually just "attack closest".

Oh yes! If we could get custom difficulty that would be the best. Then players could customize their experience however they would like. The only reason I was suggesting those difficulties is because custom difficulties seem so much harder to implement especially with a game has complex as this one. So, I was thinking it would be at least a good idea to have different difficulty modes. At least give me and others the ability to play with a genuine 5e ruleset.

Why would you remove highground ? What would be the point of taking a good position in your system ?

I actually don't have an issue with high ground. It is not, however, a 5e rule to get advantage for high ground. To me, ut makes sense, but for full blown 5e rules for strict followers, that was why I mentioned it.

I'm all for a better balance and various difficulty level but what you ask is a complete other system with bonus actions that becomes actions depending your choice (UI ?), a useless verticality except to shove, specific creatures for every mode, an action to heal (maybe) 1HP,...
Being 100% faithfull to the rules is not necessary and as you described it, it looks boring to me.

I'm really just wanting things that make more sense. Eating food while in combat doesn't. Even drinking a potion as a Bonus is a bit hard to believe. You try chugging a bottle in 3 seconds. A potion should be an Action, almost 6 full seconds.

Its not a completely new system. Its a tweak of current. Instead of Shove being a Bonus, its an Action. Disengage is separate from Jump so characters aren't jumping 30 feet across the room.

The game has to be balanced first and it has to have strong foundations.

Absolutely, but many are already complaining about 5e is too hard even with cheesed homebrew rules to make it easier. So, how you gonna get good foundations without a solid base ruleset? Give us a 5e ruleset as the base and then cheese it for Easy Mode or whatever you want to call it.

Tweaks could then increase/decrease the difficulty (i.e +1/+2/+3 for highground, +0/+1/+2 ennemie's AC, +0/+1/+2 to allied ST or such things, barrel weight 100%,70%,20%,...).

Yes, except 5e should be the starting point. Easy would be offering advantage instead of bonuses. Hard would be increasing AC by 2 or whatever.

Even Pathfinder that has A LOT of options to customize your experience don't allow players to custom what is action and what is a bonus action (Don't know the EN words for Pathfinder but you get the idea).
What you ask looks completely unreasonnable and would require to balance the game differently for all difficulty.[/quote]

The point is that 5e is a solid, tested set of rules already established. So it should be the starting point. Then tweak it for other difficulties. The 5e system balanced things well. Its because they made things Bonuses when they should be Actions that everything is jacked up now. Shove is an attack. Therefore, it should be an Action like Melee Attack. Disengage is an Action because you have to work hard to avoid getting hit while moving away from am enemy. Making these bonuses throws off the whole combat system, making it easier. Thus, the game as is seems set on Easy. A 5e authentic ruleset would be more like normal.

Because high ground doesn't give automatic Advantage in 5e, and the mode is called "D&D 5e Mode"?