Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Concentration

I would do this, too, but not as a feat. I'd just let anyone concentrate on two things, at a +5 to the DC of Concentration saves, or three things, at a +10 to the DC. And if you fail a Concentration save, you lose ALL the spells you're concentrating on.

100% agree with this.

IMO, the best line of defense to maintain concentration is not to be targeted/hit at all. And in that regards, AC, saves, etc should be last resort defenses. Ideally enemies are disabled or completely out of reach/sight. In many ways, getting a good initiative is probably the biggest determinant of how a fight will go.

And yes, despite all prevention methods, concentration will get broken.

The reason I would do it as a feat is because concentration exists for a reason (mainly balance), but unlike most decisions which are made for balance, I actually kind of like it because mechanically, the idea of a concentration spell makes sense. The main issue with concentration is it creates a situation where it reduces the variety of concentration spells down to 1. There are lots of concentration spells, but most of the time, there will be 1 spell which is better than all the others and so you will end up casting that concentration spell over and over again. This becomes more pronounced the higher level you become, as you have access to more and more spells and the higher level spells are a lot better than the lower level spells, so pretty much all of the lower level concentration spells become dead weight which would be better used as a damage spell.

The problem with allowing casting multiple concentration spells is fairly obvious - It breaks action economy. Now, I am not a balance purist, so it doesn't go too much against my personal philosophy to do so, but I do think if we are going to deliberately unbalance a system we should minimize the damage. Making it a feat (maybe a feat which can be taken multiple times) goes some way towards minimizing the damage by forcing players who want to concentrate on multiple spells to sacrifice a feat in order to do so. It does create a secondary problem that maybe this 1 particular feat is a lot better than other feats and players feel "forced" into taking it, but its better than just giving away the feature by default. Maybe concentrating on multiple spells could also make all spells you cast against enemies roll with disadvantage for example, or maybe it could have some other balancing mechanic in play, but either way, I do feel if you are going to make changes like this, they should be carefully thought out to reduce the damage.

Alternatively, maybe it could work similarly to how martials gain extra attacks as they reach certain thresholds. Every 4 levels you can maybe concentrate on 1 additional spell, with an appropriate downside for doing so (something like all damage rolls always rolling for disadvantage while you are doing so), or a limitation like sum of the level of all spells you are concentrating on cannot exceed the maximum spell level you can cast (for example, a level 5 wizard would be able to concentrate on a level 1 and 2 spell or a level 1 and 1 spell, but not any combination which takes them over 3).

Small add, while im not sure how i feel about the check and how it will work, especially when damage taken creeps up... One thing the mechanic does do is give more viable option than just damage in multiple caster party make ups... can make use of both bless and bane if 2 clerics etc...

You're not wrong, but this is a pretty long standing issue for both d&d and d&d video games. In previous editions not only were you making concentration checks when you got hit, you also had to make them if you were: riding a galloping horse or fast wagon, in a strong wind, entangled, or if you were using defensive casting (previous editions had spellcasting prompt opportunity attacks, defensive casting traded out opportunity attacks for concentration checks). But this was partially mitigated by the fact that you could have multiple duration spells going at once. So what did you do? You stocked up on feats like combat casting to minimise the bad side.

If you think I'm not annoyed by concentration checks in 5e, I am, its a huge issue, the kickback against spellcaster power creep has really hamstrung them. I was trying to make light of a bad situation.

unfortunately the solution to concentration woes in bg3 isn't clear. Less environmental damage overall would help, as would un-beefy-ing the creatures in the first area of the game so their saves are less robust. Removing it entirely, as has been said, would shake up the class balance too much. I dont' have any proof of this, but I don't think larian's dice rng is very nice, it seems to go for extremes, either you roll really high, or really low, at least in my games.

But, there is one thing I would like to see fixed before launch: Githyanki mage hand should NOT be concentration. It's just an invisible mage hand, I don't know why you made it need concentration larian, stop it. Haven't found any more spells that are mistakenly marked concentration spells, but I'll yell about it if I do.

I don't think it's been mentioned ITT, but the spell Shield is often integral to keeping concentration. It provides a huge safety net against getting hit
-it can be cast as a reaction, after you know you've been hit, so you don't waste spell slots on it
-it adds +5 AC until the start of your turn, a big bonus that possibly negates multiple attacks against you that would otherwise call for Con Saves

If shield was added as an actual reaction, not as a pre-cast option like feather fall, then this would massively help keeping Conc.

At upper levels, I think serious changes would have to be implemented along with any concentration changes. High level spells are just too powerful too allow multiple of them at the same time.
--e.g., The ability to cast Greater Invisibility & Fly would basically make a caster invincible. No one would realistically be able to target them

Yeah I feel that. Staying positive is key.

It's not a spell, but Blessing of the Trickster from the trickster cleric also got concentration added to it. Which sucks, because it's one of their best features, and you can usually use it in tandem with pass without a trace to make sure even your heavy armor wearer will pass their roll.

My solution: Avoid most concentration spells. Command <- Use. Sleep <- Use. Hold Person <- Ignore. Etc...

That makes me mad, there's enough things in this game that have concentration on them without Larian adding it to random things.

Don't add concentration to things larian! You're making it worse!

This is especially rough as a melee caster since you're in the thick of it all the time. You really can't mitigate damage through positioning if you need to be in people's faces.

Warcaster is generally the answer to that, but it isn't in the game yet and it is kind of boring besides. I'd rather take a fun feat like Sentinel that changes up how my abilities interact with my enemies and makes me feel more unique over taking a feat purely to avoid losing Hunter's Mark every battle.

It is going to be WAY worse for moon druids too. They have to go into melee with low AC and if they lose concentration they can't cast a spell again without giving up one of their limited number of wildshapes.

At least resting frequently is an option to avoid running out of spell slots due to re-casts. But I'd rather be able to keep on trucking through three or four encounters at a time rather than go to camp between every fight.

The worst part though, is a lot of class/race combos aren't gonna hit 20 in their main stat ever because they need mandatory feats like Warcaster and Resilient Con to function and we only get two ASIs before level 10. Three if they push it up to 12.

That means my poor dragonborn moon druid will probably only get to 16 WIS in total if I focus on the concentration feats. Might even stay at a pathetic 14 if I take the feats and want to grab something fun like Sentinel.

Kind of feels bad.

THIS is exactly what i mean. Most of it , anyway.
A system mechanic that more or less forces choices of feats, skills or abilities on you to make the CORE mechanic of your class work properly is broken in my opinion. It takes from you the choice to build your chracter the way you want.

I also have tried moving my caster out of harms way. But man...do i really have to make my Cleric bless the party and then hide behind a rock? Seriously? Every damn point of damage (every damn mosquito :D) forces you to make that check. With CANTRIPS creating burning or frozen ground (which my chars really like to fall on) and nearly every mob with an in of 3+ having grease bottles, acid, frost, fire, thunder and whatnot arrows it makes using concentration spells pretty useless.

As said, 40+ years of (A)D&D and casters have never had this issue. And imo it was fine.

That caster end up beeing nearly all powerfull in D&D relates more to the types of spells this System provides later on rather than not having to concentrate on certain spells.

One way to deal with the extra checks from burning and stuff would be to make it so you just don't make a check if the damage you sustain from that source was less than 10% of your total HP. That way sustaining only 1-3 damage wouldn't be enough to trigger a concentration check at all. You'd only need to worry about actual attacks.

On the tabletop this would be difficult because percentages involve math, but in a video game it'd be real simple.

I don't think multiple concentration spells necessarily breaks action economy. If you can cast both Longstrider and Jump on someone (without concentrating at all), why can't you cast Bless and Shield of Faith? I thought it worked fine in previous editions when spells just had durations. Hold Person doesn't need to be a concentration spell, the target already gets a save every round, it might fail to even land, or it might break on their first turn, you're unlikely to get so lucky as to have it last more than a couple of rounds. It seems really arbitrary to me which spells require concentration and which don't. Spiritual Weapon actually does break action economy by basically giving the Cleric an extra attack every round, and it doesn't even require concentration! It just lasts a minute. It completely destroys whole character concepts. Want to play as a buffer? Too bad, cast your one buff and then shut up and cast Guiding Bolt. Want to play as a crowd control character? Too bad, cast your one control spell and then shut up and cast Scorching Ray. It just limits casters too much. I'm fine with it being harder to maintain concentration on multiple spells, that seems reasonable. But just not being able to use most of your spells because you're already concentrating on one feels bad.

On top of this there's a LOT of spells that I don't see any purpose in being concentration. Focusing on the ranger list because their concentration almost universally goes to Hunter's Mark:

Why is Hail of Thorns concentration? It's a single use attack spell. Not something that has a continuous effect to be focused on.

Same with lightning arrow. One use one burst of damage.

Fog at least has a continuous effect but it feels like the sort of effect that should just be dropped down and dissipate naturally over a few rounds.

And why do Barkskin and Stoneskin need concentration when Jump and Longstrider, other buff spells, not? These are defensive spells that would actually be immensely useful for druids with crap armor so they could maintain concentration on other spells more reliably!

If some of these spells didn't require concentration ranger would be in a significantly stronger position and be able to make use of their half-caster nature.

Due to my post being out of place and already addressed I removed it. Suffice to say, I agree concentration seems to be something needed, but some spells should maybe have a change to duration or spells from half-casters have a bonus to holding on to their spells easier that are what they need to be effective.

Some people putting the cart before the horse here.

Concentration is fine the way it is. Prohibiting a caster from stacking buffs on top of each other is by design and a healthy thing for the game balance. No pre-cast orgies, no CoDzilla, no overpowered CC, less caster-martial imbalance.

The actual issue for tabletop is that some spells shouldn't require concentration. And for BG3, that there is too many instances of unavoidable damage at low levels, too many enemies with ranged weapons, enemies having additional attacks or instances of damage they shouldn't, and the prone condition causing concentration to be broken.

It's just one of many instances that shows that Larian either does not appreciate the extent to which their homebrew impacts the base system or that they were willing to experiment by throwing stuff at a wall and see what sticks during EA.

I play a wizard (currently 9th level) in tabletop D&D 5e and without Concentration to limit her, she'd be almost unstoppable. Concentration is a game-balance mechanism. It might not seem to be at lower levels, but when you get more spell casting slots and access to more spells it becomes important.

Since D&D was around casters always started pretty weak and got stronger later on, read some novels on Elmister, Khelben, Gromph, Mordenkainen, to list just a few. Rulewise you can still stop them. The other classes get better at mitigating the effects of spells too. With spells like "wish" in the pool such things are to be expected.

I do not say that i do not understand the logic or even the plan on the concentration mechanic. On some spells i think it fits pretty well. But compare "hold" and "sleep":

As of now you PUT people to sleep but have to concentrate to KEEP them paralyzed. OK. Works.

But could you not also say you paralyze people for a TIME (as has been) but you need to concentrate on the sleep spell to KEEP them sleeping (mostly during a very loud combat situation which would wake up even a drunken dwarf). Against both spells victims get a save but against hold there are much more ways to break it.

In case of hold, maybe give an extra save each time the victim takes damage.

Another way would be to rename concentration to a "maintain" mechanic. Give casters a certain amount of spells they can maintain, getting more by level and add situtations that require a concentration check while maintaining. In case of hold a concentration check when the victim takes damage. Something along those lines.

Or, like mentioned above, a damage threshold before a concentration check is necessary. Either depending on HP or CON. Like half of constitution + modifier (like a profiency). That way even a CON 8 caster would need to take 4HP damage to have his concentration broken. That would remove a lot of things like acid or burning from a certain check each round.
For falling prone, just add +5 :P

Couldn't agree more. Concentration as a mechanic is fine, but the other stuff Larian has added to the game to make it more like a Michael Bay movie have forced the caster to have to roll for Con saves more. But on top of all that, the enemy NPCs relentlessly target the party member who has the lowest AC and HP even when a martial is in his face, further aggravating the problem, as casters tend to have low AC unless they cast Mirror Image before hand.

I do not play PnP but I agree with you.
Concentration is needed for balance.

The problem is that Larian really likes ground effects and AoEs.
Everyone got a grease bottle or acid flask or elemental arrow.
Firebold lets you burn and ray of cold lets you slip.

So its like this:
PnP: Somebody shoots a firebolt at you and misses. You do not take damage and there is no concentration roll.
BG3: Firebolt misses you but the ground is burning. You take damage and you also take damage in the next few rounds.

At the moment concentration makes only sense if the caster can hide behind a wall or all enemies are already engaged by party members.