Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Does anyone like the Origin system?

What makes your character so special that they assume leadership with such ease? What if you want to play a character who isn't the leader?

How can you consider your character as integrated into the story when you'll be dealing with your companions personal questlines while your own character's history is never more than a throw away line?

Of course I'm assuming the Custom MC won't have their own personal quest generated by your choices, but I think I can consider that a safe assumption.

Then you go for solo run? I liked how Fallout1&2 and Arcanum party size was defined by charisma. Then again, I didn’t like how party members would be out of my control and act like morons.

Yeah, I have nothing against little Bioware-explanation: you are leader, because “x”. You don’t do that and things can feel weirdly convenient.

There have been some complaints that seem to revolve around the player not feeling like the most important person in the game because the companions have proper backstories. I am not sure how a premade backstory will help those types though, they probably want no companions and only followers. For the rest of us, we have the freedom to be as unique as we want in creating our backstories.


Agreed. There are more than enough games out there that limit us, this one should remain as it is. Maybe add some generic premades if they have time for the people that can't come up with anything on their own.

Having a home in Baldur's Gate for city natives is a good idea but it might be a bit jarring for players unfamiliar with the area unless they explain better the amount of memory loss we have.


You don't have to take the leadership position. You can control all 4 characters, give it to Lae'zel since she seems to want it so much.

I consider my characters decently integrated into the story. It seems to me that we have lost some memories, namely the ones surrounding our capture and some of the time on the ship. Anything else is up to the player to come up with, including a personal quest, although I think that they expect this to be revolving around the situation we find ourselves in. Too early to tell. Memory loss and experimentation can make for some interesting plot (and a way for your DM to screw with you) while leaving enough open for there to be multiple ways to fill in the blanks later on.

Maybe.. I'd personally think that these types of games would be too rule heavy and lengthy for the casual crowd though. I guess it depends on what "casual" means these days.

You can never have a complete blank slate character in a video game, because some things are always going to be defined for you. You'll be limited to available classes and races. You'll be limited to characters who want to accomplish whatever needs to be accomplished, in the ways you're presented of accomplishing it. As the game goes on, you may need to adjust your character concept in order to continue - if you're playing a hardcore pacifist, for example, and you come to a point where you must kill someone in order to advance, you'll either need to adjust your character or quit and make another one. Or headcanon the heck out of the situation and write fanfic afterwards. That tends to be my strategy.

Everyone has different ideas about just how many restrictions they're willing to accept. There are some games I refuse to play because I can't customize the main character enough, but, on the other hand, if I have to deploy headcanon a lot because the game can't react to the elaborate imaginary backstory I was given the freedom to make up, I end up disconnected from the world and the story.

I'm glad I'm not a game developer because I have no idea how to strike a good balance between those extremes.

I would be very interested in a game that allowed this to happen. Unfortunately this game even when given a scenario where your character cedes the initiative doesn't allow that to really happen I don't think a lack of imagination is at question here, but that you aren't given any tools to craft your own background. Currently you can choose race, sex, class, and a generic occupation (straight out of the handbook) which is little more than a way to Tag! skill proficiencies. Unless you're talking about making head-cannon backgrounds for your custom mc, which I consider akin to playing D&D without rules or dice rolls, it can be fun, but without any feedback from an impartial third-party, It ends up just feeling a little shallow.

Having read your fanfiction I think you have plenty to add to how a custom character could be handled better (and our first meeting with Astarion for that matter)

There is a big difference between being the "most important person in the game" and "having a unique in-game connection to the world (not just headcannon in your mind)." Currently, Tav's only in-game connections to the world are the tadpole and the [Baldurian] tag. See @Tarlonniel's comments above on ending up disconnected from the story.
I'm not necessarily asking for a premade backstory. Tav's connection to the world could also determined by a more detailed tagging system: e.g., personality traits tags (honest, kind, lawful, violent, etc) and more locations for our character's hometown than [Baldurian]
Or Tav could have a more unique connection/relation to The Absolute, played or narrated through right before being abducted

I disagree with your assertion that "[players who want Tav to be the most important in the game] probably want no companions and only followers."
Afaik, the difference between origin characters and followers is only the ability to start the game with them & the tadpole. Backstory freedom can be almost entirely separated from NPC stories/importance/strength of personality.

Thanks! But fanfic is easy (relatively). I don't have to account for the amount of time and resources my non-existent developers have available. I don't have deadlines, salaries to pay or shareholders' expectations to satisfy. I don't have to worry about engine limitations and game mechanics and all the fans out there clamoring for a thousand conflicting things. All I have to do is steal the brilliant ideas of others, cut them to pieces and sew them into the warped fabric of my imagination while laughing maniacally.

I've made the occasional mod, and that is hard. Putting a whole game together... yikes.

Being decisive and making the right choices. A person who does that would naturally rise to the position of a leader is most groups of strangers. Why did the NPCs all submit to letting the Bhaalspawn assume leadership in BG1? The same reason. Nobody in the party knew their heritage until towards the end of the game.



Then you are playing the wrong genre of video games.



My headcanon is strong.

I forgot about this scene. There would be a bit of disconnect there. I just would treat it like the Baldurian tag for those who have decided they come from other cities for now but hopefully they can modify that scene.


The head canon background would be using the DnD rules which are very open when it comes to this. I haven't played with a DM who expects the background to be randomized with dice rolls unless I have misinterpreted you? I come up with backstory using the DnD rules and the proper world setting, and there is only discussion if there is to be any homebrew stuff in there. My character then develops as the game progresses according to things that happen, this part I do in any rp game.


My comment was not directed at you, rather at reading between the lines of things some have said in different threads. Some people seem to feel overshadowed by the companions simply because they are fleshed out. This is why having complete freedom to create backstory is good, you can make yourself as great or as insignificant as you want. Some players want to be the only "hero" and any npcs are only there to make them shine more brightly, not to be actual companions. This I don't understand, followers are boring to me.

A more detailed tagging system would be nice, especially if personality traits/demeanour could affect the immersion breaking facial expressions in cut scenes. As for the Baldurian tag, I just simply do not use that option if I am playing a character from another city. What I am worried about is if they add more tags and people complain it is not enough because their personal option is not there, so they keep this cycle until they get frustrated and scrap the whole system and force premades on us, which goes entirely against the spirit of DnD to me.
Having a more unique connection to the Absolute could be interesting if it was an option only. I still think our memory loss is going to be important to the plot. and personally I would not like to be told what I was doing before the abduction, it would ruin this element.

I definitely agree in the importance of companions. Companions, and the connections you make with them, are a big part of what I remember from these types of games. Having them be fully fleshed out is incredibly important.
I think that fully fleshed out and important-to-the-story companions can be balanced with the PC being a or even The 'hero,' although I acknowledge that that's likely easier said then done. Balance is key, and imo BG3 is currently a bit too far toward the "PC is insignificant" side.

That's fair about the tagging system; that people could always say it needs improvement. Similar for my other suggestions. They're not perfect. I'm not really sure what exactly would improve the game, I just know that playing as Tav rn feels lacking to me. I might just like playing as more defined characters *shrug*

I guess a specific example is in homebrew (sometimes even in premade modules, depending on the DM), the DM can often incorporate part of your background into the story. Find your lost lover, avenge your parents, reclaim your birthright, introduction of an NPC that is from your background, etc. This greatly helps me, at least, to rp my character and feel like they're a real part in the world.

Obviously, I don't expect BG3 to have this type of thing due to the vast amount of work/permutations it'd require. But there's some happy middle ground between headcannon-only Tav and ^.

Of course, Larian could already plan to do something like this in Act 2, in which case great! ^_^

This is a very good point

What mrfuji said. You need enough for the imagination to stick. It's balancing act and the balance is off. The DOS2 origin system was overwhelming -- you were really playing their character and if you said anything out of character it felt like a mistake. And your custom character was oatmeal to their ice cream.

But BG3 is too much of a blank. Background doesn't count at all (yet). Class and race get unique dialogues but those aren't quite enough to make the PC seem unique. Any drow might say this . . . Tav needs something that sets her apart from her companions -- her own quest, her own stronghold, destiny, unique reaction to tadpole -- I dunno but *something* that makes her as interesting the others. At this point Shadowheart seems like the main character.

Im sorry for responding to such an old comment but I'm feeling too lazy to go through the whole thread to see if someone else has written what I'm about to say and at the same time your statement is something I've seen several others use as an argument and I see it as heavily flawed.

First of all. This game,, even though it might become great, is not the best thing since slized bread. It's a crpg. The third iteration in its series. People that haven't been interested in crpgs before have absoluly no reason becoming interested in this one. Not when the title has the number "3" in it. Some people might pick it up based on hype in media but not the majority. The majority of players bying this game will be people that has either fond memories of earlier Baldur's Gate games, likes D&D/fantasy crpgs or liked Larians previous releases and hopes this will have the same quality.

Secondly, from a sales point of view, it's always better to define your intended target consumer first and then design your product and marketing campaign to fit that person. I will show this with some overly simplistic examples.

Let's say a company want to release a new soda. What flavor should the soda have you ask. Well, we want it to sell it to as many people as possible, so...all the flavors of course!
And then they discover that the new soda taste horribly, so they scrap that idea.

But they still want to sell their product to as many as possible so instead they come up with another idea...what if the customer gets to choose which flavor he wants! So they let test consumers try out their new product. A bottle of carbonated water that comes with a whole bunch of mini flavor packages. Great! thinks the consumers and chooses the flavor they want and enjoy the soda. Afterwards though they realise a problem. What to do with all the unwanted flavor packages? And the test consumers ask the company, why they would buy a bottle of carbonated water with flavor packages, when all they really wanted was a strawberry soda.

The same goes for a computer game or any other product. In trying to reach a too large or generic market, you often risk making a product that doesn't appeal to your intended target and instead come up with something bland that sure has a little of something for everyone but nothing that the consumers can't find anywhere else in concentratred form, specifically tailored towards their particular taste. Imagine Dark Souls with an easy mode or The Sims Battle Royale. Although the last one sounds atleast enjoyable :P

So no, more accessibility doesn't necessarily equal higher sales.

Without proper data you can't know for sure you are right. Honestly I'm not sure you are

Warlocke

counter-point, everyone followed the Bhaalspawn because games are poorly written; with the unwarranted assumption that you are the protagonist. In other words you're the protagonist because you're the protagonist...

I also would like to point out that very 'decisive' people who go around saying they're making 'right' choices are as liable to find themselves leading only themselves.
What genre is that? RPG? Then I'm not...I thought you were in favor of more narrative freedom ;p I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here.
I don't like playing games that don't play with me, you can make up any kind of story on your end with any game if you wanted or you can use the tools they give you to make a story, I'm arguing that they should give you sufficient tools to make a compelling actor in the story. Otherwise I'm just playing with myself...and you can quote me on that.

Zarna
I'm sorry I made this confusing, I didn't mean rolling your background, the impartial third-party I'm talking about is the game, our "mechanical DM", making a headcannon around the scant particulars given us in character creation is one thing, but only what is in the game can be observed, reacted to, and incorporated into the story, which is what I'm after most.

I'm also for a more robust system of traits, or similar, to customize our MC with, for the same reason.

I can ofc be wrong, I'm not all knowing. But from a logic point of view...why would someone that hasn't been interested in crpgs before, suddently pick this game up? With the game being titled 3 it tells the customer it's not the first iteration and therefor probably has a story that is continued from earlier games, a story they have missed. Being a crpg it will probably have some basic core mechanics that the customer haven't liked so far. Etc.

I personally don't like fps so I would never pick up a game tagged with fps, no matter how hyped it becomes. And I buy neither books, games or movie sequels without getting the the original first unless I can find confirmation that their stories are independent from each other.

SEX!!! HYPE!!! MARKETING!!! why does anyone? Baldur's Gate will be the sexy new game when it comes out, and between reviews and word of mouth, I'm sure lots of people will try it out. We live in an age where Yakuza 6 is burning up the charts, what does that tell you?