Great post, Niara, I really hope the devs look at this and take it to heart. Especially this:
Originally Posted by Niara
Spell Save Timing:
In 5e, many spells force the target to make an initial saving throw to avoid their effect. That's the first hurdle that the caster has to pass to stick their spell; it's like an attack spell needing to hit. If the target fails the save, then the caster has succeeded in applying their effect. A good many of these effects limit, hamper or otherwise curtail the target's ability to act, move, or function on their turn, or impairs them in some other way.
Most of these effects, if they are ongoing, allow the target to make a new saving throw at the end of their turn. This means that once the caster has succeeded on sticking their spell, they get the benefit of at least one turn of the enemy being affected – one turn, at least, to get something out of the spell slot they spent; they've already beaten the target's save and succeeded, this is supposed to be the pay off.
In the game currently, however, this doesn't work, because the enemy actually gets its new save at the *Start* of their turn, before anything else. What this means is that in order to get any value at all out of their spell, the caster needs their target to fail not once, but twice in a row, just to get that one turn of effect... they succeeded when they cast the spell, but they could still get literally, absolutely, nothing out of the spell if the enemy passes the second save.
In this condition, why would any caster ever bother with something like that? The value of the spells that rely on saves like these has been terribly hindered because it's so much harder to get anything out of them at all now. This is a major problem that needs to be fixed right away. Spell timing matters, a lot.
