Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General BG3, DOS and the D&D rule-set

Solasta is mostly about rules and combat. But i dislike the artstyle. It has a pretty dull boring generic story. And the ambience is too much structural geometric for my taste. But i think is the limitation of the grid based system.

I haven't played Solasta yet, but I was following the development and I must say I have high hopes for their next game. With more cash from Solasta's success (that I expect), they could work out a lot of its flaws (you've pinpointed them quite well, I think), maybe move away from the grid system, improve graphics. My main hope for the next game is more story focus though.

But as for Solasta itself... honestly, I'm impressed that looking at this game makes want to play it. Me, who isn't a fan of "combat-first" and custom parties in cRPGs, and who hates TB. And the devs seem to work hard on improving the game; I'm curious about the "Winter Patch". As far as I can tell from the preview, the character models improved considerably.

its a combat first dungeon crawler based on an edition that does combat horribly and makes dungeon crawling boring.

congratulations on having poor taste

The relation with the previous BG games will be minimal at best, limited to Bhaal is involved, thanks to the time jump and WotC panic reaction to retcon everything from 4E.

Also, the default party size is not defined in 5E. Most adventures say 4-5 and in 4E the default size was specifically 5.

And yes, the question what makes this game Baldurs Gate besides tge name is certainly relevant.
Even the style is different from the previous BG games and I would say Kingmaker is closer to BG than BG2 is.

No it isn't is the simple answer, you can cheat and steal and rob in DOS plus combat isn't MISS MISS MISS whilst the enemy hits 9/10 times no matter what set up you choose, IN BG3 you can't fight well against crazily OP mobs like at the twisted tree or steal at all due to the "Ahh, let them hit with a spell at least one out of 5 to make it seem fair" way I see this game heading, that isn't enjoyable Larian, that's just annoying, I told you this during DOS2 classic and you didn't change it for the better till Definitive, do I have to wait that long again for you to sort your act out as you didn't learn lessons then?, I say this after seriously failing a 0 roll, yes a 0 roll on an invis potion theft pickpocketing after buffing Astarion with Shadowhearts Guidance..I'm to the point of almost rage quiting EA and going back to DOS and other games so I can feel good about my characters and not so negative as this is my second day of misery playing patch 3, IMO patch 3 is great for the good guy players but awful on balanced like myself or evil players..So far to be honest BG3 for me when compared to English football is proving to be a champions league match whilst the Divinity series are all in the Premiership..So NO, I hate to be the bugbear but please don't compare a fledgeling unbalanced and frankly quite annoying game as it's proving to be this patch to a masterpiece..Patch 2 was better, this patch since doing play throughs is a real let down. Yes, I'm contridicting earlier posts as I was all excited when I started patch 3 with all the improvements but now after many attempts I'm just left feeling deflated, fed up of the nerf on pickpocket, fed up of constantly low rolling during fights and fed up of feeling like my character is tarred and feathered being run over by steam trains..I'm off to play the doom eternal expansion I missed to play this to calm down for a while and feel good actually hitting things. There's utter honesty from me after yet again another very unsatisfactory day of play I could have spent elsewhere, I do forgive you as it is EA, but I can't take the depression my gripes are causing with the game in it's present state.

I'm sorry you're frustrated. Maybe wait a bit and see if they hotfix some of this stuff?

I'm never tired of the delicious tears from DAI and Andromeda fans after I tell them these games are shit, if there would be some town where all these people lived together I would paint that town red

That would probably be for the best, Patch 3 broke a lot of stuff and if you are not having fun, just play something else. Why play something that you don't like playing...


Why would anyone care...

That's one of more interesting fights out there. You can totally do it with some good planning. Place your casters with height advantage where nobody can reach them in melee. Use fire on the beefy tree guys. Level 3 doable after 1-2 reloads. Level 4 should totally waste it. Just don't bring Astarion.


Something is off with dice in patch 3. I see it rolling less than target and succeeding. That doesn't mean you can't steal at will. It was way too easy before, now it is somewhat balanced. At least it didn't prevent me from stealing all the gold from the 1st trader a few times and getting all the relevant gear in the grove before even going to the goblin camp.


If anything, pick pocketing will get even harder in release.

You may call me a TROLL if you want but I never played DOS1 so I can say nothing of it... DOS2 felt rather average to me not bad, but not good.

This is due to I am hardcore Dungeons Dragons fan and not because DOS2 is a bad game.

Well I believe this game is a mix between DOS2 and Dungeons Dragons 5.

It is still Baldurs Gate 3...

However I hope they fix some broken mechanics. I did see a youtube video with someone taking control of 2 Minotaurs and Beholder and have them as party members ... that is way broken probably a bug I hope they fix it.

To judge this game is to early for me. I do like Baldurs Gate 3 much more then DOS2 because it is Dungeons Dragons.

I have played Enchanted Baldurs Gate 1 DD2ndedition, Enchanted Baldurs Gate 2 DD2ndedition, Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 that are Dungeons Dragons 3.5 edition.

Neverwinter MMO for more then 2 years until I got bored on that that in Dungeons Dragons 4th edition.

Of all Dungeons Dragons versions the 4th edition was most disliked... and the most confusing rules and less dice rolls.

I am very happy that this is Dungeons Dragons 5. Dungeons Dragons 5 fixes many mistakes with Dungeons Dragons 4. Dungeons Dragons 5 is a bit more simple and closer to older Dungeons Dragons 3.5 then 4th edition ever was.

You may complain, but I like this game. I only hope they fix some bugs and broken mechanics. Oh and I also hope they include more classes and all Players Handbook Cleric domains.

Finally I have played Dungeons Dragons Pen and Paper and I am GURU in some editions of Dungeons Dragons rules.

(I made this post for another topic, but decided to tweak it and stick it where it was on-topic)

I hear that Baldur's Gate III deviates from the core rules of D&D 5e from time to time, but it never made sense to me, and when I google something like Baldur's Gate III D&D 5e, I mostly get results about how it's very similar to 5e, and keeping to most of the rules though having some differences. Examples include these three articles:

https://gamerant.com/baldurs-gate-3-dungeons-dragons-5e-different-same/ ("Overall, Baldur's Gate 3 does an excellent job translating the dice-throwing role-playing experience to a virtual medium.")
https://www.thegamer.com/baldurs-gate-3-biggest-differences-dnd-dungeons-dragons/ ("Baldur's Gate 3 does a great job of staying true to most of the rules, but a few major changes were made to accommodate the shift to video game.")
https://www.polygon.com/2020/10/7/21506293/baldurs-gate-3-early-access-impressions-pc ("Being so faithful to 5th Edition rules means that Baldur’s Gate 3 is constantly illustrating concepts and rules for me.")

(Yes, I'm relying on outside articles, mostly because I don't have any experience with D&D on the tabletop. Call it what you want.)

They're following the rules in a lot of instances -- more than not by far. The ones where they've decided to make their own additions kinda mess up the rules in some major ways, though. So that's the the reason people get loud about it.

So what kinds of examples did BG1 and 2 stay more to DnD rules, than that of BG3? I've played DOS2 and BG3 is vastly different. Idk how people are saying there are similarities of the 2 games. I've never played DnD but after having read many guides and rulesets of DnD 5e to better learn how to play BG3. I feel like they got it pretty reflected. Granted some mechanics must be WIP because it feels pretty exploitable, ie the jumping and long rest mechanics.

So again the question, what about BG1 and 2 stayed more to DnD than how BG3 is handling?

I've played every incarnation of pen and paper D&D and the early Baldur's gate games, as well as DOS2. I also own a copy of Solasta. I've worked as a gaming conceptual artist for PC games for over 20 years.

In my opinion, BG III shouldn't be trying to copy the limitations of a PC game made in 1998 that was then designed to try and simulate another game designed to be played with pen and paper and people's imaginations. That is an idiotic idea.

BG III needs to stretch what is possible in 2020 with today's computer tech. It ought to foremostly attempt to bring the creativity, sense of awe, excitement and RPG elements of the truly imaginative strengths of D&D to the computer.

One can do this today much better than one could in 1998. The computer can now simulate things that were abstracted greatly in 1998, and it also does not need the abstraction found in D&D to portray real world physics that only happen "in your head" using very abstract simplified rules found in pen and paper.

Larian was chosen for this game because of their skills at portraying exciting, turn based combat that features a tactical, thinking approach and the use of strategy in a fantasy setting. They are quite good at this. Their earlier game has spells and physical combat, under a different ruleset than D&D. Upon moving to Baldur's Gate, they have changed to D&D's use of the game's races, classes, spells, and combat rules, as well the D&D setting.

What the heck else could anyone expect?

There is a huge difference in a game like Solasta, and BG III. Solasta is similar to a "ruleset simulator". It has little in the way of immersion, imagination, and any sort of soul. It parrot's D&D's systems without too much in the way of any creative impact.

BG III, in my opinion anyway, is instantly memorable. It is specific, creative and unlike anything I've played before.

It manages this with the trappings of the newest edition of D&D. It does not slavishly "stick in" the ruleset, because, like translating a book to a film, or a poem to a painting, there are different requirements in the two mediums.

A computer game in 2020 doesn't need the simplification found in the pen and paper rules when it comes to many things found in the actual world being simulated. A great part of what the pen and paper rules are written is to facilitate the ability of one very human dungeon master to manage his campaign and everyday occurances. Thus, there is a great deal of abstraction built into the rules to simplify the process.

When you play Solasta, (which has a quite wonderful and accurate D&D character creation system), the best part of the game is the player sheet. I don't feel invested in the characters in Solasta. No one feels as alive as anyone in BGIII. It feels like an abstracted game- where BGIII feels like a breathing and unpredictable world.

I understand the desire to "want to revisit" the games of old, when we were younger. We carry fond memories of the early RPGs we all played.

But, I think the complaints are quite misguided. Larian's vision is not complete and there are plenty, lots, tons of changes and additions begging to be made.

At it's core, I think, this is the finest, most intimate, splashy, immersive and exciting RPG based around Dungeons & Dragons ever.

We ought not condemn it's originality- it's approach if you will, if it works well and is fun as all get out.

For me, anyways, it is that and a lot more. It does not need to transport me to the limitations, the shortcuts, the abstractions of computers in the 1990s, nor do I need a very limiting number-fest of pen & paper graphs when I can see what is blowing up and causing me terror in living, noisy, GEForce RTX 2080 TI splendor.

I think this will be one of the great RPG's, upon completion.

Well said, I see it completely the same way. The end product, from what we've got to test so far, looks to be a cinematic and story telling master piece. Thats one of the things all my dnd friends have always tried to entices me with to join their pen and paper games. The wild stories and personalized adventures, and the randomly amazing twist of events.

You know you can have both right? The game can be a ruleset simulator AND have great characters and story. The whole point of my "side" is that Larian should not choose between great gameplay and story, just look at how Solasta is doing and see that a RAW adaptation plays better, the story and characters are already implemented.

I doubt whether most dissenters are suggesting a remake of a 20 year old game, that would be stupid given the technological advances we now have. Personally I would like to see more tangible links to the original BG games, whether that be in art direction, story, familiar mechanics, UI.

At the moment these issues really spoil the game for me, mostly in terms of immersion:

-The lack of a day/night/weather cycle (imagine playing a rogue who can't be active at night)
-No calendar/clock (which leads me onto the story-apparently we are pressed for time to find a cure for the tadpole in our heads but you never know what hour or day of the week it is)
-4 person party limit
-The immersion breaking camp mechanic (the party can be half way through the Underdark but simply walks or ports back out to rest at the same place each night?!). Why can we only rest at night? Why can we not rest in our current location?
-Lack of subtlety- Our companions want to jump our bones almost immediately and most have such crazy backgrounds, it's a little overwhelming. No doubt some of the other characters in store will tone down proceedings a little (though apparently there is a werewolf in store too-what are the odds, a party of 4 with a vampire and a werewolf?)
-Waystone portals-I'm all for the convenience of fast travel but just keep it simple with waypoints, not magical portals that apparently everyone else in Faerun is totally oblivious to.



There are elements of combat I like in BG3 but the ridiculous jumping, 'King of the Hill' tactics to gain advantage and endless explosive barrels/consumables/surfaces would suggest a strong counterpoint to your argument.



I'm glad that you feel this way and I have high hopes the game will be excellent once finally finished but as things stand, I find the story, characters, UI and a host of other things flawed. I truly hope to be proven wrong eventually because I am crying out to lose myself for endless hours in a game like this, like I did with BG1 & 2.

This +++

i agree with the day and night cycle and the teleporting. funnly enaugh neither of htose have anyhting to do with the ruleset beeing used...

I disagree. As a longtime Baldur's Gate fan, BG3 feels more Baldur's Gate than BG2.