Originally Posted by Tuco
It's almost like we are talking about entirely different things.
At no point I ever complained about strong "high level" enemies being there.
In fact, it's arguably the opposite: I'm complaining about the game not having the guts to put strong enemies/characters in and instead scaling them to fit the player's level range (sort of, the discussion is a bit more complex than that, and I already went more into detail in the thread I linked in the previous reply).

In short, it's not a matter of difficulty and challenge, but it's about presentation and consistency.
You can't tell me that I'm facing the "Dark Uberlord of Evil" at level 3 and then give me goblins that are stronger than him five hours later in the second chapter of the game.
Not if you want me to take your setting and rules seriously.

I think that Larian did a terrible initial job labelling creatures and accidentally created a sense of "scaled world" in the initial EA. Some of this seems to be fixed though.

RE: Level 4 "Red Dragon"
This seems to be fixed in Patch 3 or one of the hotfixes. The Adult Red Dragon is now listed as a level 17 creature (technically still wrong, since CR =/= level, and proficiency bonus is still wrong, plus immunities)

RE: Level 5 "Archdruids"
I personally think the Archdruid situation is a misnaming instead of a decision to scale down. Reason being that if Halsin was an actual Archdruid by the books (a level 18 caster), the narrative just breaks. The entire Goblin cult shouldn't really pose a threat nor should he be captured if he actually is a level 18 druid. He can just level the entire camp with a couple of Earthquakes or Firestorms. Seriously, they should just call him a basic druid and leave it at that. Narratively and mechanically he doesn't deserve the title.


Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Dexai
That's where you are wrong. All areas in BG1 and 2 had their contents and encounters change depending on your level.
The only encounters that scaled in BG 1 and 2 were the ones against humanoid "parties of evil adventurers". And in a limited way, too.

It's not just scaling humanoid parties in BG though. If you're high enough level, monsters are added or replaced, sometimes very powerful ones.

As someone who partook in the solo no-reload challenges in the Bioware forums back in the day (and thus meta-gamed the crap out of the game), planning around the encounter scaling was all part of the game plan. Some examples of if you're high level enough:

1) Shade Lord's Temple - Liches are introduced to the dungeon (had a run end here because of this once)
2) Unseeing Eye Quest - Beholders replaces Gauth
3) Tanner's Basement - Bone Golem added to the encounter (3rd level, where you get the Gesen Shaft)
4) Firkragg's Dungeon - Adamantine Golem added in the maze
5) De'Arnise Keep - Big mob of troll spawns right before the final battle in the cellar
6) Planar Sphere - More Clay Golems, plus an Iron Golem if you're high level enough
7) Sewers - a group of Beholder just shows up when you're above the 2 million XP mark

There are more, and some that seemed to adjust based on party size too (i.e. # of Illithids at the Underdark Entrance via Sahuagin city seemed to depend on party size).

With all that said though, I think the BGs are an example of a good implementation of difficulty scaling. Especially if you compare that to the Elder Scrolls stat bloating.

Last edited by Topgoon; 22/12/20 06:41 PM.