>these are not feminine attributes
wrong, they are, but some of them are attributes of a particulary inexpirienced women.

However, positive female traits are not male traits. Forwardness, stubborness, rudeness, beeing taciturn, thick headedness and recklessness are not what i would call positive female attributes.

Id say positive female attributes are: Compassion, Dignity, Demureness, Nurturing good qualities in others, beeing an example in virtue, respectfulness, leadership by high expectations, Offering of Redemption rather than forgiveness, Spirituality, guidance, beeing an examplar for a cause rather than just af ollower

a strong female character TM (i hate that term), shows dignity and is composed, she doesnt lash out under stress, and guides others to be what they need to be.
I understand that people mistake direct stern leadership for a pureley positive concept, as it is associated with power. But a good feminine character leads by holding herself and others to a high standard, a feminine leader makes others want to be better than they are, rather than shouting at them to behave as such.

Showing weakness is not a flaw of a feminine character. It can be a demand.
Both a demand for others to drop their guard and be honest, aswell as one for others to step up and do their part.

>inb4 this is letting other people do the work
leadership is a desireable quality both in men and women and it always requries delegation.


As a contrast ill give you some positive male qualities and leadership abilities:
Stoicism, Bravery in the face of fear opposed to a lack of fear, Self Sacrifice, Comradrie, Loyalty to a cause and allies, Making bad descisions rather than no descisions-> descisiveness, saying only things that need to be said, no plattitues

Male leadership is about: leading by example, show not tell, getting a heterogenous group to work together by bridging the gaps, rousing people with words and deeds to give them a cause, accountability, answering for descisions made while also not undermining the authority when not the leader, integrating the weakest links in the chain rather then bullying them and creating a weakness


Or to put it down bluntly: a masculine leader shows HOW to follow a cause, a feminine leader shows WHY to follow it





Those are just some examples of classic positive male and female traits and leadership skills.
I could go onf or hours. Of course you could say "Duh all of those things are good a human should know all of these"; but this is not true. some of these are diametrically opposed to one another, and both kinds of leadership are required in Humans.


>ON aerie und vici
i pretty much agree with this analysis of both of those characters.
Note that vulnerability always plays a part in relationship building both for men and women, tho typically male positive romantic qualities is beeing someone who you can rely on when you are vulnerable, so typically vulnerability is less pronounced in male characters in romance.

>On Wyll
So all the "male "characteristics you see on him are negative, maybe thats the issue. Maybe thats also why you use the word "Toxic masculinity".
Theres the first red flag, then you start throwing around the word sexist and im thinking maybe youre not the right person to debate these topics, you obviously have some issues to work on yourself.
regardless:
Wyll is not a very Masculine character.
In the sense that Manhood in most Human cultures is, opposed to womanhood, earned rather than given.
You are expected to grow out of the bravado and the bragging, you are expected to restrain your anger and channel it into something producitve.
In that sense, Wyll is not very manly at all.

He is more reminiscent of a late teenager trying his best good boy / bad boy routine. But not a man.
Either that, or he is a man written by someone who has some very bad opinions on men.

Last edited by Sordak; 23/12/20 11:03 AM.