There's a thread already about d20 and skill checks
Use searchThis is a copy/paste of what I said on the other thread.
BG3:
Based off BG3 you can't get any better than a 17 for ability score (doesn't matter if you have a +2, +1, or nothing), so ability modifier is going to be +3. There is no skill points in this edition only proficiency which can be gained via background, racial, or class. At level one for proficiency is a +2, generally any race/class can achieve this +5 right from character creation.
Leveling up you gain +1 ability score at: 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th. Proficiency goes up by one at: 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th.
level 1: Ability Mod:+3 Pro: +2 = +5
level 10: Ability Mod: +4 Pro: +4 = +8
level 20: Ability Mod: +6 Pro: +6 = +12
Social skill challenges don't normally go up, so the higher level you go the better you get at said skill. This also doesn't include spells or potions that can give you the upper hand at skill checks.
Now normally in a d&d game you don't cap at 17 so the ability mod for racials actually comes more into effect giving possibly a 18 or 20 ability score. Class features seem to be missing, off the freebe pdf you can get from d&d beyond rogues get a expertise feature at level one. Which doubles skill proficiencies for 2 skills or 1 skill plus thieves tools.
Probably more junk I'm missing but I hit my limit on researching.
I must admit that your research is pretty impressive.
Over all you have a problem with BG3 and how they implemented the 5e rules, 5e rules period, or just d&d all together. I'd recommend go finding another game if you don't like the d20 system in d&d.
I will disagree here, since games adjust the rules, so that they become more enjoyable. Examples of BG3 adjustements done to improve the gameplay:
- Food heals a little bit of health
- Long rests are unlimited and there are no random encounters
- Many classess feature additional abilities and tweaks
- Height, light, positioning influences the chance to hit
- Range of bows is much more limited than on tabletop.
I've never said that I dislike the d20 system either.
After browsing the steam forums + reviews and reddit, I've seen lots of players, especially those who played Divinity series or other RPG, complaining about not being able to get desired results during the dialogues.
I know that a lot of people do love the dice rolls and I must say, that they are a core feature of Dungeons and Dragons games. So, to have everyone happy, right before we start the campaign, we could select:
So basically, if you read it once again, you could decide if you want to play exactly how is it right now, with d20 rolls, or with easier/more predictable rolls. Or possibility to re-roll over and over.
That means that people who love rolling the dice as it works currently, aren't affected at all. What changes, is that now if player has a desire to omit this, he can choose to do so. Therefore I do not understand the issue that you have with it, since adding new options doesn't affect those who don't want to use them at all. That's why I wrote there, that everyone will be happy, since people who want to play the game like the tabletop, can play it like the tabletop. Those who want the results of DC mechanics be more impacted by your character, simliar to how it was in previous editions, or just have more typical rpg-style dialogues, can also have that.
It's a d&d game, d&d uses d20, if you don't like it go play something else. Now I do know a lot of people asking for skill check modifier to be applied to your roll vs subtracting from DC. I'm pretty sure there was some major problems with this but I don't really remember off hand.
It's a game based on D&D and not every D&D mechanic translates well into the game, either because they would be too hard to implement or just plain overpowered, like the Wish spell. Same as written above applies as well, I have never said that I dislike the d20.
My personal thoughts were:
- Some of the options have unrealistcally high requirements for the skill check, which effecively locks the option from being used. Example -> checks requiring you to roll 20 or close to it. It's almost a dead in-game content atm, to have 5-15% of getting desired result, so that if a certain dialogue interaction interests us, we have to save-scum or check youtube to even know about what is it. If we do not choose to save scum, and we replay the game for 6 th time, on same dialogue, we can still fail and not see the desired result. This discourages trying to explore the game again, on a different path.
- Game encourages picking high charisma/intelligence characters way too heavily to minimise the "murder-hobo" style of play. Allowing companions to roll the dice for us, in specific situation would fix the problem.
- Locking out less of the options behind the DC could make it a little better
- Adding the possiblity for more dialogues, to use another DC if the one that we selected has failed, like if we do not convince NPC to tell us what we need, we can intimidate him to do so.
- Storyline and player choices having connections to DC could make sense -> example is
Gale being conflicted due to us siding with goblins, but we have high/medium approval. Dice roll is easier then, if we choose to persuade the wizard. This is already implemented in certain cases - if you romance Minthara and treat her well, game shows that she is conflicted and attached to us, so we succeed every time with persuasion check, no matter what do we get as a roll (I had +4 bonus from the priest of Loviathar, the DC was 5. Without the buff, DC was 1, so it's guaranteed success)
- More quests should provide the points to re-roll the DC
- Saving during the dialogues, which is planned for now, will make save-scumming, if someone wants it, less tedious. Or just check what the other option does.
- Possibly adding some of the re-roll points right at the start of the game
This is what I thought about d20 system. Not that it's broken or unfitting, it's just that current implementation of it in the game isn't exactly fleshed out. You can imagine what will happen if the Gale situation goes bad, most of people will just reload to not be denied from having an interesting storyline. Which is a waste of time. DC as high as 20 is also pointless, because it will almost never succeed and some pretty interesting dialogues or interactions are locked behind it.
I'm pretty sure you said something about save scumming but I can't find it for the life of me. Anyway just encase, devs mentioned more favorable results if you reload multi times.
I will copy it here, so that you can easily read it again, if you wish.
No matter what honestly, I see no point in setting DC of more than 15 for anything, because like I have said, the result is that some of in-game content ends up as being in-accessible without huge dosage of luck or just save-scumming.
- Saving during the dialogues, which is planned for now, will make save-scumming, if someone wants it, less tedious. Or just check what the other option does.
Edit, I forgot to mention this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/ieip8n/bg3_do_you_like_the_dice_rolls_during_dialogs/Sample size of 384, which shows that noticeable part of the players (31%), who like the game, aren't exactly fans of how dialogues are handled right now. Forcing to save scum is hinted as a common problem. Not all things have to go perfectly, but in many times dice rolls are ridiculously high right now, so much that the option is basically unrealistic to happen.
In the post, I have written my feelings about d20 and also an options on how to make everyone happy - fans of both current dice rolling, easier dice rolling or static options.
If homever, 1/3 of players are going to completely ignore certain game mechanics, let them do this. Games are made to be enjoyed after all.
