Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Getting with the times.

I think you are so convinced cooldowns are the best you are refusing to see the problem. If you use cooldowns, it makes martial classes obsolete. They are already weaker as you increase levels but once you allow full casters to cast their most powerful spells every encounter, it's over. Why bring a fighter when a caster can do more to more mobs every time? My example only included fireball as an example. Your entire argument is about fireball alone. That wasn't the purpose of my argument. There's plenty of other wizard spells as you progress that completely outclasses what a martial class can bring if they can use it in every encounter. That's why they are balanced so they can't be used all the time.

Dude, people wait for cooldowns to recharge all the time. If the spell is powerful enough, people will wait. Play MMOs and you'll see.

So what you are saying is, you want Diablo-esque gameplay where you blow up large groups of mobs. Drop a fireball, then lightning bolt. While you are at it, once you reach level 7, toss in an ice storm. Wait for recharge and repeat to the next encounter. How very tactical.

If you are using 5e rules, you can't use cooldowns without compromising the balance. Otherwise, it's a totally different system.

MMOs are not quite the same, and even so mmos use skill rotations. Mmos are also not turn based, they are real-time.

You are also being overly dramatic. You used 1 spell to emphasize a point, I used the same setting of the situation you put forth, for discussion.

Walk into every battle with only casters, and see if you can actually win fights. There is more to a battle than straight DPS. That’s why the holy trinity is a mainstay of the genre. Tank, healer and DPS.

Even if glass cannon nuke was a viable strategy, your argument holds no water, because you can in fact do that in the current system anyways. Your point is not a counter point at all, because it is not exclusive to the opposition of your point. It’s like arguing that Pepsi is better than coke because it comes in cans, they both come in cans.

Obviously some changes to the system would have to be made to incorporate a different mechanic, like I said it would have to adapt. I never said that it wouldn’t change things, but D&D is more than the some of its parts. The fact that it’s been updated on the PnP side should make that clear.

You can replace the sail on a ship, that doesn’t make it a new ship, or not the ship it once was. Chances are you prolly have to or should replace the rigging at the same time.

Also, I have never seen a DPS waiting for a cool down, twiddling thumbs, since you are talking about spamming dps spells. Supports will wait for cool downs, but that’s in any system, and they won’t AA while waiting because it’s not worth drawing aggro.

BG3 is turn based only in combat. So in your scenario, cooldown timers are on hold when combat stops? Or does the timer continue? If so it’s exactly like MMOs. Wait for your cooldowns to recharge before engaging your next group.


You took that one example as the only literal problem. It was a point to explain the overall issue. The overall issue being cooldowns do not function in 5e due to significant power gaps. Managing how often you can use a spell per long rest is a core design to balance spells vs martial skills.


Casters with maximum spell resources in every encounter would win every fight in 5e. You don’t need the trinity at all. The only reason you can’t is due to losing spells until each long rest. Without that restriction, wizards are tank/dps. Heck clerics would be all three. If you can’t see this already, I won’t be able to explain it to you.

And of course you can do it now and that’s why the current system sucks! It’s a mesh of DOS and 5e. That’s why we are all here voicing our opinion. If it was working, why would we be having this argument?


If you take away the sail it is no longer a sailboat. Throw an engine in it, it’s a motorboat not a sailboat. You take away 5e mechanics, it’s still a game but not a 5e game.


Again you are arguing the tree from the forest. Fundamentally breaking a core rule in a system breaks the system.

I mentioned in the past that Larian just decide on one system. Go DOS or go 5e. But don’t waste time blending the two. It doesn’t satisfy anyone. But if they decide to go DOS then don’t pretend they are trying to faithfully follow 5e.

Same goes with cooldowns. Either go 5e or don’t. Stop trying to blend it with something else.

Once you start talking cool downs, or mana pools, you are no longer talking non MMO D & D. Not any version. Not any permutation. Not any mutated variant.

Period. End discussion.

You are indeed talking about an MMO like EQ or WoW or D & D On-Line, or a game such as DA or Diablo. All fine games, but they are not D & D.

Whether it's BG or IWD or even newer games such as Pathfinder or Solasta, there are NO cooldowns and no mana pools.

In this discussion, this is kind of a faulty analogy as you are replacing one thing with... the same thing. The better one would be to replace the sail with engine (two very different ways to achieve the same goal, which 5e spellcasting and cooldowns are).

So, if you replace a sailboat's sail with an engine, is it still a sailboat, or even the same boat? No, it is not.

The "rest system" maybe archaic, but the entire class system and individual powers are balanced around it. Compare the Fighter subclass Champion with Battle Master or Eldritch Knight. The ultimate ability of the Champion is regaining a few hit points at the start of each combat (with conditions placed on it), and this usefulness is already questionable...even before taking unlimited heal items and resting into account. Strong once per day abilities becomes usable every encounter by the click of a button. Full casters like Wizards will eventually be able to be fully buffed and only use the strongest of spells - every battle. The most powerful classes become even more powerful without some kind of real restriction to their abilities and/or EXTENSIVE rebalancing/buffing. Bad balancing limits good choices.

Resting when implemented properly, is not simply a mechanic or a system, it is ROLEPLAYING IMMERSION with some tangible game effects. The current implementation leaves a LOT to be desired though! The plethora of balancing issues aside, it also manages to bring a strong NARRATIVE DISSONANCE on its own. Tadpoles eat your brain and will turn you into a monster, and Gale's heart is a ticking time bomb on top of that again. But hey! Not really! It is also IMMERSION BREAKING in multiple ways; you can rest in the midst of geocoding a goblin camp, and you will be teleported without being teleported to a camp that never changes to reflect the environment. The goblins will, out of politeness perhaps, not disturb your beauty sleep and not react to the lengthy passage of time. This is simply half-assed and BROKEN.

Another "archaic system" being broken by Larian's "funnsies" is the easily exploitable use of advantage on attack rolls for higher ground and flanking. I like DOS2 combat rewarding tactical maneuvering, but it *will* break Barbarian's central Reckless Attack ability that gives you advantage but attack rolls against you have advantage as well. Especially jumping/flanking becomes a tedious repetitive exercise. Same thing goes for setting your weapons on fire. Only boredom prevents you from exploiting this round after round, battle after battle. If we are virtually guaranteed extra damage and advantage on nearly every roll, why force us to do this ritualistic dance every time? The faithful, but clunky implementation of the Warlock's Hex spell manages this without Larian's help. It's BAD GAMEPLAY. The "BG3 vs DOS3 balance" needs to be reconsidered because at it stands; they are clearly at odds with one another. One or the other got to give more.

Zzzzz I tire of this discussion. Have fun with your lives. The mentality that something has to be 100% literally interpreted and translated is just stupid.

“It has to be a 6ft rainbow unicorn with tassle saddle blankets or it’s not a real unicorn.” Smh

Good day

And the strawman appears. No one is asking a perfect 100% conversion. We are asking for a faithful adaptation.

Yeah. Have a good day.