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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2020
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I don't feel betrayed, I feel like I made a mistake in joining the pre-order for the game because I had thought it was going to be at least foundationally close to 5e rules. My problems with the changes, particularly the rests, is that they basically trash some of the core balancing in the game, the action economy balance and the short rest/long rest recovery balance. Both of these have dramatic impacts on the power level between classes, but I'd argue free infinite long rests do the most damage. Bonus action disengage kills one of the core rogue and monk abilities.. the ability to disengage as a bonus action. It's unbalancing in that it takes a defining ability away from two classes and gives them nothing in return to make up for it. Is it the end of the world? No. Does it look like someone doesn't understand the class balancing act in terms of the action economy? Yes. Do I trust someone who seems to not understand how impactful this is to those classes? No.
Now the infinite long rest thing just makes it far more clear that they really don't have the first clue about class balance, because they are skewering any class that regains its resources on a short rest. This means monks and warlocks mostly who in terms of class design have fewer resources to go around than other characters, but can recover them on a short rest. Looking at warlocks, they get 2-4 spell slots, but they recover them on a 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 basis when rest restrictions are implemented so it balances out to a degree. (4-16 spell slots to use between long rests compared to 2-22 for other full casters). They also have a much shorter spell list to choose from, usually 1/2 to 1/4 the size of most other class lists at equivalent spell levels. In exchange the few spell slots they have cast at higher levels. So ultimately it balances out, until you let all other casters have unrestricted long rests. At that point warlock becomes a liability unless you think eldritch blast spam makes up for the difference between a 10th level warlock utility and that of a 10th level wizard. Same thing happens with monks, everything they do needs ki and the costs compared to ki gained is high, terribly so with way of the elements. The upside is that all ki is restored on a short rest, so monks can keep up with the utility of other melee classes, or at least play stun bot, given short rests. But again unrestricted long rests makes monks mostly worthless. Heck I'd go so far as to say it makes most not full casters worthless, because seriously why would you opt for a fighter when you can use mage armor with a decent dex and the shield spell while unloading hell on your enemies and simply long rest right after to get right back to full.
These are the design decisions that worry me, because they show a stunning lack of experience in how the game works and plays. And these kind of decisions are the ones that make me think I made a mistake. Just my opinion.
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Entire Thread
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Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Drath Malorn
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16/02/21 12:59 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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andreasrylander
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16/02/21 01:14 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Scribe
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16/02/21 01:50 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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H3ll Pme
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19/02/21 02:30 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Labayu
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19/02/21 08:30 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Icelyn
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16/02/21 02:01 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Tuco
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16/02/21 03:11 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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daMichi
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16/02/21 03:22 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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nation
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16/02/21 03:46 PM
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Niara
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16/02/21 02:08 AM
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LukasPrism
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16/02/21 02:37 AM
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16/02/21 02:39 AM
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Scribe
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16/02/21 03:00 AM
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Roethen
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16/02/21 04:10 AM
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16/02/21 04:30 AM
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16/02/21 04:52 AM
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16/02/21 06:27 AM
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16/02/21 06:45 AM
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16/02/21 09:05 AM
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ldo58
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16/02/21 04:58 PM
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16/02/21 10:05 AM
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16/02/21 10:39 AM
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16/02/21 11:52 AM
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16/02/21 03:07 PM
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Ixal
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16/02/21 10:51 AM
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Nibel
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16/02/21 11:08 AM
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16/02/21 11:01 AM
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16/02/21 11:28 AM
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daMichi
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16/02/21 12:58 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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andreasrylander
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16/02/21 04:19 PM
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Peranor
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16/02/21 04:45 PM
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kanisatha
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16/02/21 02:24 PM
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Drath Malorn
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16/02/21 07:04 PM
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kanisatha
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18/02/21 02:23 PM
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Mat22
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16/02/21 02:35 PM
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booboo
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16/02/21 02:54 PM
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Etruscan
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16/02/21 03:22 PM
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Maximuuus
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16/02/21 05:29 PM
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Mat22
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17/02/21 09:27 AM
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Peranor
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17/02/21 03:55 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Drath Malorn
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17/02/21 12:34 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Maximuuus
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17/02/21 02:44 PM
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Khultak
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17/02/21 02:50 PM
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Dexai
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17/02/21 03:33 PM
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17/02/21 05:46 PM
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spectralhunter
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17/02/21 07:45 PM
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marajango
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17/02/21 07:50 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Drath Malorn
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17/02/21 08:18 PM
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Thomson
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17/02/21 10:34 PM
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Baraz
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17/02/21 07:44 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Topgoon
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18/02/21 01:18 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Maximuuus
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18/02/21 02:32 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Topgoon
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18/02/21 03:26 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Baraz
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18/02/21 02:44 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Saito Hikari
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18/02/21 07:12 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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booboo
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17/02/21 08:23 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Lunar Dante
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17/02/21 09:35 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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andreasrylander
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17/02/21 10:24 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Merry Mayhem
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17/02/21 10:46 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Wormerine
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18/02/21 01:04 AM
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redcaptrickster
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18/02/21 01:08 AM
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vometia
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18/02/21 12:53 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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mr_planescapist
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18/02/21 07:39 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Saito Hikari
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18/02/21 08:04 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Pandemonica
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19/02/21 09:16 PM
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Newtinmpls
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19/02/21 10:10 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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spectralhunter
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19/02/21 10:22 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Etruscan
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20/02/21 12:20 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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nation
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20/02/21 03:22 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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simsurf
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20/02/21 12:34 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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spectralhunter
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20/02/21 12:58 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Sadurian
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20/02/21 01:41 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Nyloth
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20/02/21 02:08 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Ixal
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20/02/21 02:13 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Nyloth
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20/02/21 02:52 PM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Tarorn
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20/02/21 01:30 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Baraz
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20/02/21 01:59 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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tsundokugames
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21/02/21 08:47 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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Tarorn
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20/02/21 05:31 AM
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Re: Larian's communication, faithfulness to 5E rules, and the players who feel betrayed.
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tsundokugames
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21/02/21 08:44 AM
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