Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Rogues, not living up to expectations.

First off, a big +1 to all of you who want to see the rogue fixed and have kept the conversation going.

I find it disappointing that threads about the rogue class NOT living up to expectations haven’t garnered a whole lot of attention in the forums as much as other, say, more nuanced UI mechanics that have generated more conversation.

This is a class we’re intended to play with through the whole of EA content, and Larian kind of broke it. It’s an EA class that CLEARLY has issues that require both attention and fixing.

Someone else said it best: If anyone can rogue, why play a rogue? I’ll go further and say : Why even include the class? Why not make sneak attack a feat and put the nail in the coffin. Though I really want to play the rogue class to it’s full potential, I’d rather play any class other than rogue right now because those classes can do more, and still do rogue things, making the rogue meaningless.

You may hear the argument about rogues: “But... What about the damage they deal in this game? It’s crazy high!” Sure. But in my experience of playing this class at the table and in other video games, damage-dealing doesn’t define this class. Rogues have so many tools in their toolkits to allow for more immersive gameplay and utility than just “I hit things hard.”

Then comes the next argument: “But... you get more skills in this game than any other class? There’s your utility and immersion!” To which I say: So, what! In a party of four with a broad range of skills, anyone can have the skills of a rogue and, furthermore, utilize those skills - even thieves tools. The Rogue is supposed to be better at certain things, and the exclusion of Expertise at level 1 means nothing makes the rogue really unique. And, again... If you bring up sneak attack... See above.

I think we all agree that at Level 2, cunning action sucks because - with the exception of Dash - it belongs to everyone now. So, as a level 2 feature, getting BA Dash seems rather watered down when compared to things like Action Surge, Arcane Recovery, Fighting Styles, Hunters Mark, Invocations, and on and on... I could go on about why tanky, higher hit-point characters should not get Disengage as a bonus action, and take the effing opportunity attack instead (because melee!), but I think I’m preaching to the choir in this forum. So again, the rogue lacks uniqueness two levels in.

At level 3, it’s archetype time. While I can’t speak to the Thief class as it seems to function the way it should (correct me, all ye forum trolls if I’m wrong, and I shalt point ye to the nearest bridge to call thine home), I can however speak to the Arcane Trickster. I made a whole post in the forums about this specific Archetype and how it feels severely nerfed. You get two cantrips, not three... (Pardon me, but I need to fill up my swear jar again) and you don’t automatically get or have to take mage hand. But why would you when the legerdemain feature doesn’t allow you to steal and carry objects? I could do a whole post on Legerdemain alone. Like I said in my other post, Larian has taken a lot of the “Arcane” and “Trickster” out of the Arcane Trickster, much in the same way that they took the “rogue” out of the rogue. (Why they gotta hate? Did someone, like... steal their coin-purse like way back in the day? Or was it like a REALLY good rogue... who managed to steal Sven’s first suit of plate armor off his back.)

At any rate, I’m in agreement with all of you that this class is lacklustre. It’s a thoughtless implementation of a class in my opinion that I hope is just an Early Access thing. Rogues are good damage dealers - no doubt - but anyone who has played one could tell you that it’s their unique utility in and out of combat, coupled with sneak attack that defines them, and to me, the utility part is missing, or subtracted, or given to every other class to use.

So I’ll ask it again: Why include the class? If so much of what makes a rogue is yanked, then why not yank the rogue, Larian. Sneak attack? Make it a feat. You could do the right thing and fix it but here’s your easy way out. Just don’t put it in there and say: “Look we have a rogue you can play!”

Myself - and other fans of this game - we don’t want this, of course. But it doesn’t seem like Larian has addressed this, or responded to those who love this class about these issues.

Look, I tip my hat to Larian: on the world they have crafted and all their hard work thus far. It’s so great to play within this world and so many interesting approaches to problems. They’re a great company, and I’m thankful that they’re out there making great games. Thank you. I am entertained.

But they also took our money - and asked for our opinions and feedback - to make this a better game and we “players of rogues” have spoken.

So maybe address these and the other bothersome issues of this class (i.e. buttons for sneak attack instead of baking it into an attack that meets Sneak Attack conditions) before releasing other classes (Cough, cough, druid, cough, cough).

Understand that those who rogue don’t want to sneak attack their way through a game. They want to play through the game with options granted to them by their ability to truly be a rogue, which at this moment - and we can all agree - everyone else has, with the exception of sneak attack.

There. I’ve said my peace, as have many others on this topic. Is anyone listening? The proverbial ball is in your court, Larian. That is all.

Well, one more thing... What’s up with Tasha’s Hideous Laughter being Pact of the Old One warlock only?!

(Hear you go, swear jar, my old friend)