Originally Posted by Dexai
You keep insisting on that yet that's not something I've ever said, and it has no bearing on anything in this discussion.
Oh I didn't say you ever said that. I was just saying that these are my definitions, and according to these I can play play an Orc Wizard with 16 Intelligence or an Elf Barbarian with 17 Strength at level 1 and still be roleplaying. You said that I would then not be roleplaying, but that's because you probably use a different definition, and in that sense it was relevant to the discussion. That's fine. I'm wasn't as interested in that and moved on to what I find is a more interesting discussion.

a) Ok then. So the Elf with 17 Strength is possible. And, yes, the Half-Orc (or Orc, I guess) is advantaged when it comes to Strength. Statistically advantaged.

Originally Posted by Dexai
Secondly -- Orcs are biologically stronger.
This is true, if you add the word statistically in the sentence.

b) It seems to me as if you're in favour of limitations that would (hardly or softly) prevent someone from playing a 17-Strength Elf. Or refuse to call someone a roleplayer if they want to play someone who defies the statistical stereotypes of the race.

Originally Posted by Dexai
What you are asking for is to already start out as exceptionally exceptional at first level.

Fully agreed with this statement ! If I can roll a bonus-free 18 using the Roll method, then I want to be able to start with a character that has as much if I use Point-Buy or Some Other Rule instead.

Originally Posted by Dexai
It is the attributional equivalent of people who write character backgrounds about how their level one characters are already the best swordsmen in the world, have slain dragons, are arch-mages, or gods/angels, and so on.

I disagree with that second statement though. If I roll an Elf with 17 Strength, I don't have to justify this by a level-10-worthy backstory. I can just say that my character was incredibly gifted by nature.

Which brings me to 2 new, hopefully better, questions :

1) If I rolled a 17 Strength Elf Barbarian, and then try to figure out the backstory of that character, would you allow that and call that roleplaying ?

2) If I start with the backstory for an Elf Barbarian character, and I want to have 17 Strength at level 1, would you call that roleplaying ?

Flash info : The Dark Urge is not an Origin Character. And it's not a new concept.