Now that the concept of proposals have been brought up.
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=758672#Post758672 What do you all think about this? In another thread dropping prone was brought up.
Prone defined, so we're all on the same page.Concept: Remove the benefit of disadvantage on incoming attacks with higher ground and add in a prone or dodge action.
I like the intent of the idea and here's where I'm going with this.
- If high ground doesn't natively provide disadvantage on incoming attacks, it will be less of a "must-have" for ranged abilities.
- Ranged attacks from below wouldn't be punished as much at the start of combat.
- Dropping prone to have ranged attacks come at disadvantage is a strategy in DnD 5e.
- Dropping prone would create a defensive option for the player/NPC that the game is currently lacking.
If the game requires that 1 action is spent to drop prone, then there will be more tactical depth. There would be more trade-offs as the player would have to consider if it is worth it to use an action to have disadvantage on incoming attacks and then spend half their movement to get up on the next turn.
Similar logic could be applied to adding a
Dodge action. What are all your thoughts on this?
Spending an action to drop prone seems extreme. In 5e it doesn’t cost anything. In fact, you can drop prone and dodge in the same round if you choose to do so.
I'd like something similar to dodge, so I'm being flexible with implementation. I want something that would make the player consider options. If drop prone is implemented to 5e RAW I'd support that proposal as well. If the character drops prone they're at least sacrificing half their movement on the next turn and an enemy could jump/misty step and get into melee range. It's strategically more engaging than what we can play in patch 3.
This wouldn't solve at all the problem with having an advantage while you're higher.
I can't really see the point.
At the moment highground is the god mode.
Advantage for you + disadvantage for your ennemies + you can often hide behind a wall or fall back a bit to break your ennemy's lign of sight.
According to me highround should just give a bonus to Attack roll - or AC - or a reduction to downer target - and nothing more (except maybe a bonus to your range, field of view).
Dodge should be implemented as an action of course. But this is not especially related to highground.
Hiding behind a wall is a strategic choice, that's healthy for the game. If the benefit of disadvantage is removed from higher ground it becomes about using the environment for defense.
It raises the question, is the problem really that you get advantage when using high ground? Or is it that attacks are at disadvantage if if the character is on the low-ground?
It's positional disadvantage that drives the magic missile meta. (Threatened or lower ground). [I believe from prior discussions we both agree that adv/dis together is too much value]
Imagine if Threatened applied disadvantage to melee attacks, the player would be forced to use backstab to get a normal attack. It would feel like your options are limited, which is what happens when you use ranged abilities. The conditions for disadvantage are forcing the player to make move to high ground. Some examples:
- For ranged attacks: There are times where you would have dealt with disadvantage staying at the same elevation, are not dealing with disadvantage because the ranged ability is going beyond it's normal range, are dealing with disadvantage because of lighting on the enemy, etc.
If the player is using ranged abilities, they are limited on choices because disadvantage can be so superfluous.
Melee rarely has this issue. Fighter was already planning on attacking in melee anyways, for melee attacks backstab is just a few feet away.
(This does come back to my personal opinion that higher ground providing advantageFOR+disadvantageAgainst+Threatened is the biggest issue).
In conclusion, the proposal should at least make ranged attacks more enjoyable to use and help get away from the magic missile meta.
(Keep in mind, I would still want Threatened changed/removed to supplement the proposal.)
EDIT
Maybe I missunderstand but I can't see the point.
Why would you prone if you can dodge ? Don't implement dodge ? What about melee that cannot prone ? Then implement prone as a bonus action and dodge as an action ? Why would we change anything to highground if you can prone each turn nearly for free...?
Dodge should be implemented as an action both for melee and ranged characters, but I don't see the point with prone... It wouldn't solve any issues related to highground.
At the moment highground is the god mode.
Advantage for you + disadvantage for your ennemies + you can often hide behind a wall or fall back a bit to break your ennemy's lign of sight.
According to me highround should just give a bonus to Attack roll - or AC - or a reduction to downer target - and nothing more (except maybe a bonus to your range, field of view).
The prone thing is the exact same system as now exept that it require an action for the disadvantage... so just implement dodge...
I value you input, I'm open to both dodge and prone. And I want to read what the community says on which they'd rather have. If forum members really want both, prone, or dodge, that helps write up the proposal.
