Originally Posted by Topgoon
In terms of calculations, the posters on the Giants in the Playground D&D forum's created a pretty comprehensive 5E DPR calculator if you're interested in playing around with the math.

Calculator (make a copy in order to edit/input):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14WlZE_UKwn3Vhv4i8ewVOc-f2-A7tMW_VRum_p3YNHQ/edit?usp=sharing

Documentation (in case you're curious about the formulas and math):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11eTMZPPxWXHY0rQEhK1msO-40BcCGrzArSl4GX4CiJE/edit

All credits to Ludicsavant and AureusFulgen


Originally Posted by Nouri
now the damage at lv 5 with feats and fighting styles. lets take the defense fighting style (+1AC) for the two-handed fighter, so the AC stays the same:

two-weapon fighting: 1d6+4 + 1d6+4 + 1d6+4 = 3d6+12 = 22,5

two-handed fighting with PAM: 2d6+3 + 2d6+3 + 1d4+3 = 4d6 + 1d4 + 9 = 25,5

two-handed fighting with GWM, lets say you get a bonus action attack every other round: 2d6+3 + 2d6+3 + 1d6+1,5 = 5d6 + 7,5 = 25

I don't disagree with this poster's conclusions (that in RAW DPS PAM and GWM usually wins out), but the calculation here is full of errors.
  • There's no polearm eligible for PAM that does 2d6 damage. Most 2-handed polearms do 1d10
  • Accuracy for the most part is ignored - including the +1 to hit for two weapon fighting
  • Getting your bonus action attack every other round is a pretty huge assumption to make for GWM...


Not going to audit the whole thing, but just even going back to their example:

two-weapon fighting: 1d6+4 + 1d6+4 + 1d6+4 = 22.5

two-handed fighting with PAM (at -1 accuracy): 1d10+3 + 1d10+3 + 1d4+3 = 22.5

two-handed fighting with GWM (at -1 accuracy, assumes extra BA attack every other round): 2d6+3 + 2d6+3 + 1d6+1.5 = 25

two-handed fighting with GWM (at -1 accuracy, assumes 1 enemy): 2d6+3 + 2d6+3 = 20

I still think PAM and GWM are situationally superior because of the other effects (extra opportunity attacks for PAM, -5/+10 for GWM when paired with advantage), hence why I don't disagree with the conclusion. Having riders (i.e. Improved Divine Smite +1d8 damage on each hit) also changes the math. The more riders you have, the more TWF and PAM benefits and GWM loses its appeal (because the cost of missing each hit becomes proportionally a bigger opportunity cost).


Fun fact - you can use a 1 handed spear + shield with PAM (kinda like a Spartan), and then dueling style for the +2 dmg. Only +1 relative AC since the original poster is running defense style and +2 DEXt. The math would look like this:

1 handed weapon + shield fighting with PAM (-1 accuracy, +1 AC): 1d6+5 + 1d6+5 + 1d4+5 = 24.5

there are many two handed weapons that do 2d6 or better (in early access)