Originally Posted by LordGiggles
Originally Posted by alwayswrong
But this is exactly what im talking about. smile "huge ongoing balance issues"? Is it? For me this like 25 pages thread "how bad movement in this game" . After 30 hour with friends and alone, i never had this thoughts. But may be i should be mad as other people, i don't know.

If talk about height stuff, i found this good for me in this game (know nothing about dnd)
1) It make some fight harder, than it is. It always good for me. Harpy, goblin ambush in village, many other. You have this disadvantage and you need deal with it somehow. May be you will rush to them, may be use x10 jump and attack\push, may be will use damaging flask (which have 100% accuracy). This is strategy and opportunity to move you character, and i like it (in dos2 you just staying and attacking from one position, which is boring).
Without disadvantage, you can switch to crossbow for every character and focus fire every enemy with no problem. Why move, why hide.
2) Height advantage not always free. Many times you fight for this exactly because it good (rush with melee char, to clear it for your team), or not. Your choice again.
3) Height stuff not make 56 or something spells useless (but i don't know skill for sure). Highground not totally free, and not always available, so skills which gives you advantage, still will be useful, just because should remove disadvantage\give advantage as usual.
4) It still accuracy right? Not double damage or something. I guess if calculate damage for one player in act1, who sometimes was on highground, sometimes not, you damage probably will be same, because again, its accuracy and not 100% extra dmg.

And even if you no need 500 iq to reach highground, it still something. And this push\jump stuff. I played as warlock with friends(i thought warlock is mage with some cool skills). Omg, 17 hours of eldrich blast. At least he have imp. I don't wanna say boring, but most fun was exactly when i did something "fun" as larian added in game. So if you remove height stuff, jump\push because it broken, some surface fire+acid combo, what should i do in game? Just keep clicking on button with no brain?

Backstab in opposite side for me. This not add any complexity in game, AI not using it at all. So it not good, not bad (but why true strike still in game). Just cheap accuracy to make melee character no feel like trash i guess.

So i will be angry, if Larian will listen community and remove all this stuff. i hope they not xd


Sure, but again here you're just not really explaining why things are the case, you're just kind of insisting that they are. I think this does stem from you not knowing much about the system, but advantage is a huge deal in DnD, there are some incredibly powerful spells dedicated to giving you advantage and enemies disadvantage against you.
Simply claiming that it doesn't make spells useless because sometime you might fail to gain the high ground doesn't really make much sense, because why wouldn't you be better off spending your spells on gaining the high ground? What about all the abilities that give melee attackers advantage that are useless because you can always walk behind an enemy?

I don't believe it's much of an argument to say "well some fights don't have high ground so entire major abilities being turned into niche uses is fine". Like come on man, your point 3 here is "These 56 skills aren't useless, but also I don't know what they are" lol

From the EA so far, it's incredibly easy to gain and maintain the high ground in almost every fight, and the AI does a very poor job at forcing you off it. It also removes any real creative tactics, because it is almost always the main goal of every fight. It is generally the strongest position, drastically increases how much damage you're putting out, drastically decreases how much damage you're taking, there's not really any situation where you aren't going to want to just take high ground and stay there.

I'm not sure what your point about warlock is here either, like you picked a warlock, a class primarily focused on blasting, and are annoyed you spent a lot of time blasting? You get a few limited spell slots (that should be stronger because normally there's a limit on long resting), and you throw around eldritch blast a lot. That's what pretty much all warlocks do. it's still pretty much all you're doing in BG3 too, that's just the classes identity.

I think a lot of your points here have some validity, early game DnD combat can absolutely be a bit boring, but you're neglecting the other issues created by the solutions.
The issue here isn't that they tried to incorporate new stuff, it's that there's very little consideration about how that impacts other things. Jumping around constantly heavily reduces your need to care about protecting your backline, and takes away a lot of the rogue classes identity. Giving you effectively permanent advantage in most fights, and often effectively permanent disadvantage against you, hurts the amount of freedom you have in positioning and makes classes that can create similar as an effect later on much less impactful feeling. It also makes abilities that don't use a roll to hit much less impactful feeling.

I honestly feel as if you might benefit from rereading some of the discussions people have had on this topic, because like the answer to your last part in point 1 has been talked about a heap. You're not just going to be standing still like an idiot if you don't have permanent disadvantage against enemies, they're still trying to kill you and the high ground is still absolutely an advantageous position, it's just not universally the most important element of every single relevant fight in the game anymore.


If you're not keen on rereading those discussions, at least read up on bounded accuracy a bit, or skim through some of the core rules for 5e, they're all pretty easily found online. I don't think it's fair for others if you're hopping into a discussion about a system you admit you don't really understand, and declaring their takes on the changes wrong or that it's somehow depressing to read them.

Dude, why does he have to make a game theory argument?? He is simply explaining what he enjoys about the game, and your telling him well if you can't explain the theory behind why you like it, then your point doesn't matter. Basically making his point for him. This is admittedly a person who is not into D&D, picked up the game, and is simply trying to explain why HE likes it. Guess what, maybe he just doesn't give a sH&t about D&D 5e, and just wants to play a game that is fun with him? I think that is the point a lot of you are missing in this whole big, page after page argument. There is going to be 100s of thousands of players that buy this game that don't give a shit about the theory of 5e.