Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Mega-threads and Guides Camping and resting.

Original Title: The Long Rest, Its Problems and its Solutions

"Make certain to rest a lot." "Rest as soon as you get Shadowheart." "Before garnering too much reputation with Gale, you should rest." "As often as you can, rest so that you can get all the dialogue options, because companion reputation..." Etc. etc.

The Complaints: I think most of us have heard recommendations of this sort from those who have been willing to share their experiences of BG3 gaming. We have encountered the frustrating dynamic of having missed conversations with our party members because we did not rest enough, or perhaps that we failed to rest between certain story events. As part of the gaming experience, as part of travelling with party companions, one would expect to get to know them better over time, and it is strange to me, and many others, that this was frustrated by the constant need to rest. I must admit to being somewhat bewildered by this gaming dynamic. Resting should be something we do as a party once our resources have been exhausted, once our party is exhausted, tired. So the question is (or at least, one of my questions): How is it that in BG3, my ability to progress in dialogues with my party members depends on how quickly I exhaust my resources? The more quickly I exhaust my resources, the better my chances of progressing in dialogues with my party members?

The Story Problem: Now, just to be clear, I have had a tremendous amount of fun playing BG3. I was (and still am) fanatically devoted to the original two (as I'm certain many people reading this are), and I am impressed with the direction BG3 is going, and with the story as it's unfolding. With that said, I would like the party and gaming experience to be a bit more fluid, or consonant with the story. So this brings me to my first major problem, which really goes beyond gaming dynamics, to the problem of story consonance: the decision to constantly rest is extremely dissonant with the story we're presented as characters.

We are told that we have a mind flayer tadpole in our skulls, ostensibly eating away at our identity, and soon to turn us into abominations. The absolute farthest thing from my mind, when presented with this information, is to continually rest, to spend day after day in bed. In my first playthrough, I refused to rest at all for the longest time, fearful that any delays would spell doom for myself and my fellow party members. Now, admittedly, this is perhaps an overcautious (neurotic?) approach to the information we were presented with, but certainly the other end of the spectrum, of simply resting and sleeping as much as possible, is just as bizarre.

The Gameplay Problem: Another problem with the Long Rest is how disjunctive it is to the gameplay experience. Shadowheart and I have just killed the three intellect devourers by the beach, and when I click on the Long Rest button, we're magically transported into a coastal camp setting next to the forest. How is it that we just arrived at this campsite? And, how is it that after having rested at camp, we arrived back to the same beach location inside the wrecked mindflayer ship? This kind of magical teleportation breaks gameplay immersion, and it doesn't get any better when I'm in the depths of the goblin fortress, having infiltrated my way inside, and I can immediately pop in and out between the goblin fortress and my party's camp. Finding the camp in the first place should make sense, gameplay wise, and getting back to the camp should make sense, as well.

A Story Solution: For each of these two problems, the solution should correspond with its category: the story problem should have a story solution, and the gameplay problem should have a gameplay solution. As for the story problem, the best solution (as it appears to me) should be that the story itself should, at regular intervals, bring us to camp, in order to make certain that we as a party hit those important party conversations that progress the plotline. I will give some examples: Once Shadowheart and I defeat the intellect devourers, there should be a story cutscene that brings us to our new campsite. This cutscene could take on any number of flavors: After the battle with the three intellect devourers, we witness a goblin horde approaching us as they search the wrecked mindflayer ship, and we have to hide and run away into the forest to escape from certain death. Exhausted, we look around and find ourselves in a clearing, and decide that this is good enough a place as any to rest. Or perhaps we have to flee the intellect devourer battle because we are suddenly overwhelmed by even more of them. Perhaps we are knocked out in the conflict, and we wake up in the forest camp clearing, with someone (Wyll?) having rescued us. There are any number of options. Likewise, after having entered the tiefling camp, we are invited to rest and recover from the battle, and the story brings our party to some quarters the tieflings have set aside in the camp, to give us a chance to rest. I don't pretend to be able to plan out each of these story reasons to bring our party to camp or to rest, but I can well imagine there being story reasons spread out across various events, to make certain that our adventure is punctuated with the party dialogues that complement the adventure.

A Gameplay Solution: As for the gameplay problem, I propose that there is a gameplay solution in order to make our return to the camp more immersive. Littered throughout the map, I propose that there be interactable "forest trails." Once you approach a forest, a bunch of trees, or a road into a forest, there be "forest trail" tags that you can interact with that bring the party to the campsite. It would be like the interactable tags found at the edges of the map that bring you into another instance, but these would be more numerous, and would bring the party to our campsite. Not only does this make sense gameplay-wise, of accessing the forest camp through the forest. It also makes sense of how we will rest once we reach cities: there can be "alleyway" tags in the city map that we interact with in order to bring us to our 'tavern' or whatever our new party rest site will be in the city. Likewise, travel between the "forest trails" and our campsite can now be new opportunities to introduce skill checks: (1) if the party has someone with a high enough stealth check, we can always avoid 'encounters' on the way back to camp; (2) if the party has someone with high enough survival/nature checks, we avoid certain pitfalls or traps along the way; (3) if we have a member with a high enough history/lore check, we may encounter a ruin or some sigils along the way that this party member recognizes; etc. This opens up a new series of ways to introduce story elements into our gameplay.

Feedback: In any case, these are some of the thoughts I have had while playing BG3. Please, let me know what you think. I would be interested to hear what you think of my proposals, of how my proposals could be implemented, but also of any other ideas you have come up with or come across to deal with these problems.

Nice contribution.

Fully agree they need to choose a solution to doing Long Rest at will and, the opposite, players who try to never rest.

Hello,

Thanks for your feedback. This is something we already discussed a lot and many of us share your issues with the actual rest system.

This TP in/out is 100% immersion breaking, we can easily miss dialogs and the urgency of the main story doesn't match at all with the unlimited rests.

Another issue you didn't really talked about is that ressources management makes no sense (why having spellslot if we can rest at any time).

I agree with all this.

On the other hand your solutions looks very complicated.

About the gameplay solution :
- we should not be able to TP at all while we're inside (a dungeon, a cave,...)
- we should be able to TP from the oustide but through the worldmap (open the map, click on the camp)
This would looks like a travel and not a WTF TP anymore It would works the same but the feeling would be very different, especially if the game say something like "you travel for 2 hours".
- I'm also one of those thinking that fast travelling should have consequences. Random encounters (combats or not), new creatures appearing on the map, new/modified questline... Anyway, something that would give the feeling that this world is alive.

At the moment everything/everyone is just waiting for us and the resting system just increase this feeling because nothing never happen.

Players would also have to rest if :
- we wouldn't be able to change our prepared spells at any time (like in DnD)
- we would have to rest to level up (like in DnD).
This would probably solve a part of the missing dialogs/companion story issues.

About the story solution :
It could be cool to just have a quest "find a spot to rest" after you fall the nautiloid. This could be the following of the tutorial and this could lead us to the camp.
Of course this meant that the camp has to be on the map^^

@Maximuuus

Gameplay Solution: I definitely agree with your concerns about TP'ing from within a dungeon or cave. That seems bizarre. I also really like your suggestion that travel to the campsite should have a notification alerting us to how much time has passed (the "you travel for 2 hours" suggestion). That makes a great deal of sense. If party members have higher survival checks, they could speed up travel times, but we could also get hopelessly lost if none of the party members knows how to travel in a forest setting.

Story Solution: I really like that idea, of having a quest to find a campsite! I think that's another great solution. We could make the campsite accessible before the goblin battle at the tiefling camp entrance.

I very much like your statement of the problem. As Maximuuus mentions, though, I feel like the solutions might create new issues and none of this addresses the resource management part of the problem. I also think that, though a story solution and a gameplay solution both need to happen, that they need to work together in one coherent system. I would either search for two separate solutions that can be woven together into one or look for a single solution that addresses both problems.

My ideas for the moment:

1) Eliminate the permanent camp entirely.
Putting down roots doesn't feel like something that you would do as a small group that has landed in the middle of nowhere and needs to go out searching for answers that might be very far away.

You need to do something with the companions that aren't actively in your party. They could go about their business in the world (where you could seek them out if you want to trade them in) or maybe they're following the main party, carrying all of the camping gear.

2) Camp wherever you are, but have risks commensurate with your location.
You can take a long rest or a short rest whenever you want. The location of that rest would be where you currently are or somewhere nearby. Someone could make a survival check, with higher results on that check corresponding to locations that are safer, easier to camouflage, or have better access to food/water/firewood. Having someone with a high passive survival in your group might point out good resting places as you wander around. In a populated area, like the grove or a city, you could initiate a rest by talking to an innkeeper or equivalent, or just take your chances on the street.

The risk needs to be high enough that you can't just rest all the time safely. Wherever you are, there would be some chance of a random encounter appropriate to the area (e.g. wandering monsters in the wilds or pickpockets in a city alley), but you can better prepare yourself for those encounters by setting a watch and rolling a perception check. Maybe if you're resting too close to the goblin camp, there's some chance that their scouts notice you and don't attack, but the camp is better prepared for you when you arrive. Lots of options here.

Odds of an encounter increase based on things like:
-how dangerous the area is
-how good of a campsite you found
-if you have food/water with you or if you have to go out looking for it (and how much is available nearby)
-how long your rest is - long rests in a dangerous area should be much riskier than short rests
-how long you have been in the area - the longer you've been around, the more likely your group has been noticed
-how good your watchperson's perception checks are (this could also impact whether you are surprised if you are found)

3) Have some representation of time passing.
This could be a day/night cycle where resting advances the clock a certain amount of time based on how long you rest. It could be the current system where it just turns to nighttime every time you take a long rest (though I personally don't prefer that). It could be other things in the world changing while you are resting. Again, lots of options and I don't know that there's a best one - just something that works with the rest of the system.

4) Decouple story moments from long rests.
If Wyll likes something that you did in battle, he can tell you about it right after the battle, wherever you happen to be. Or some amount of time later when there is no active threat nearby. Or maybe it's the next short or long rest. Maybe some are tied to a location - it would make sense for the party to take place in the grove, for example, no matter which side you took.

-On the Topic of Short Rest-
I fully support the idea of having a short rest initiate some of the long rest dialogue, it would alleviate a lot of the issues with story development.

-Back to Long Rest-
I still think that the player should be limited on where they can use long rest. And, it is okay to have a permanent camp to waypoint to for long rest. Combat becomes more interesting when you have to manage a healthy amount of resources.

We'll probably always be able to fast travel out of a dungeon, but the player should have to walk back to where they were from the nearest waypoint. This would put a fair amount of incentive to push through the dungeon and manage resources.

Essentially the player should have to take a waypoint to camp (can only use long rest there) and then take a waypoint back out.

• This way, players who are new to the game and struggling with combat can recuperate with long rest and resume the dungeon crawl.
• After the player becomes accustomed to combat, they will want to avoid repeating the same path into the dungeon.
• The player will start to strategize on how to manage spell slots and items, etc.

Players who are familiar with D&D will already be managing their resources throughout the campaign.

I may have mentioned this in a much earlier thread, and it may not be a popular opinion, but here goes. First, it seems to me that Larian is committed to this idea of a teleport to camp for a long rest on demand, as long as you're out of combat. I doubt this will change. At least, we're seeing no sign it will change.

Given that reality, I think the only thing that's needed is an in-game explanation for how this happens. For example and just one way to do it:

The MC has an invisible ring of teleportation, and it only portals to one location: a small campsite existing on its own plane of reality. The party could even be teleporting inside the ring itself, with time stopped in the outside world. After all, that's effectively what happens with the camp rest. Teleports and portals aren't unusual in this setting, it just needs to be explained. This wouldn't require more than a single cutscene at the end of the prologue, or even just a tutorial pop-up if the resources aren't there for another cutscene.

This doesn't solve any of the complaints about making the game too easy, but again I don't think Larian is showing any interest so far in changing the basic long rest mechanic. At least explain it, if it's going to be this way.

I agree that the resource management piece is important. I'm fine with having hard limitations on long rests, but without a solid day/night system (which is not a small undertaking), it's difficult to think what those restrictions would be. My thought was to replace those hard limitations with increasing risks - so you can rest whenever you want, but resting a lot in the same area without getting interrupted becomes increasingly difficult so you have to be careful about when/where you choose to rest.

Another idea: Keep the permanent camp, but get rid of all fast travel and teleportation. If you want to long rest, you have to walk to camp. The current system feels ridiculous because there is no cost to or restriction on the character or the player. If the player has to walk the character all the way across the world every time they want to sleep, they're going to have to learn to be more efficient with their resources or spend a ton of time walking the same paths over and over.

I don't particularly like this idea. I hate the permanent camp, but having to walk there every night replaces something unreasonable with something else that's unreasonable. I also don't like punishing everyone in order to discourage a particular behavior. But maybe there's a nugget there that we can use.

The solution is definitely going to be adding a cost or a risk to long rest. I'll probably enjoy whichever option Larian chooses, I'm that kind of gamer.

I was focused on which option would maintain mass appeal. It's usually easier for players (not familiar with RPGs) to handle a cost versus a risk.

My suggestion:

- Outdoors only: You can go to the camp only if you are in an open area, away from enemies. Thus, it's not possible to skip to the camp from the Underdark, Goblin Fort, etc. In these cases, the party needs to go to a safe area for the long rest button to works.

- Sleeping bags: When they cannot go to the camp, the characters can sleep in sleeping bags. Just place the bag on the floor and click on it. It is also possible to sleep in the beds that you find in the buildings. Sleeping in a bag works just like a short rest. DOS has sleeping bags, so I believe it will be easy for Larian to implement. A message may also appear asking whether the group wants to light a fire or not.

- Time passing: Time passes when you sleep, and this can lead to complications for certain quests. I advise putting time into some quests, like saving Benryn.

- Random encounters: Random encounters are an important part of D&D games and this can appear in BG as well. When sleeping anywhere, you will have a percentage of being attacked by creatures. The type of creature depends on the environment where they are camping and whether or not they have lit a fire. Tests can be done to determine whether the characters were taken by surprise or not. To prevent the party from going to camp all the time, just put random encounters when they go camping as well. Perhaps to say that they were followed by some creature.

- Tiredness: After many hours without sleep, just fighting monsters, the characters can accumulate levels of exhaustion (PH, p. 291). This can be shown with them talking (“I'm exhausted, I need to rest.”), and at the interface, with a grayish color on the portraits.

- Nightmares: But how to prevent the characters from resting all the time? Simple, the tadpole does not allow. They will suffer from constant nightmares that prevent them from resting, and it's useless to sleep all the time. This can be shown with a narrator's dialog or the character saying that.

@Gustavo R
I really like the nightmares idea, as a dynamic that prevents overuse of the Long Rest function. There should be some penalty to just resting all the time, and this seems like a great one.

So basically these two points are in direct conflict of one another. People (including yourself) say that you need to limit the travel to camp because it is not realistic, or it breaks immersion or whatever. But then you reference the crazy sleeping bags in DOS2 where you can just completely heal with unlimited uses? I mean what is the difference? That just seems like recommending some change, for the sake of recommending some change.

I totally disagree with the need to walk to camp. It is just a waste of time for the sake of wasting time. Should there be a risk involved in going to camp? Absolutely. But there is no difference between integrating a random roll on engagement fast traveling to camp, than to do it where you camp on location. There is literally no difference at all. Basically what you are requesting, is people play the way you want them to, or else be penalized, have your game time either limited or wasted walking through complete zones for camp. Good luck getting that implemented.

These are basically along the lines of how they did it in DA:O and overall it worked. There was limited places you couldn't go to camp (I think the long road and Orzammar. But yeah the principle worked. The big thing is to not cause to much of a penalization to the player to access camp, but put some challenge to it. Definately a better idea than forcing them to walk all the way to camp, that is just not even remotely acceptable.

The topic of short rest convos to camp convos also works, again similar to DAO. There was some conversations you could have to progress the companion story, but the major ones had to be at camp. As for managing spell slots etc, maybe they should offer the player something like that in difficulty, maybe a D&D setting that would follow those rules. But I doubt overall, the average player would want to be that strict on the rules. Though I think they should definately offer something to the player that does.

Yet again, you are putting words in my mouth and I don't appreciate it. If you'd read the second paragraph, you'd see that I disagree with the idea as well and in no way indicated that I was requesting it or trying to get it implemented. It's just an idea. It's a fairly extreme idea, but talking about extreme ideas is an awfully good way to develop more reasonable solutions that you wouldn't arrive at if you only look for the low-hanging fruit. Maybe spend a little less energy being needlessly combative and shooting down other peoples' ideas just because you don't happen to agree.

If it is something you don't agree with, don't write it as an idea. I am also pretty sure having a discussion, that when someone disagrees with you that is not being "combative". That is someone simply disagreeing with you. Sorry if I interrupted your echo chamber. If you don't want someone "putting words in your mouth" (which ironically came out of your mouth) than don't write them. I quote:

So where EXACTLY did I put words in your mouth?

You realize that Camping is only in the game to progress some story right?
You realize there was NO camping in DOS1+2 right? So why you expect a meaningful resting mechanic now? Just because someone called it BG3 to boost sales you expect a refined mechanic based on DnD rules?

Its ok as it is. Noone cares DnD rules anyway at Larian. And since you can rest anywhere and as often as you want there is at least a function to it by advancing story. It could be alot worse belive me!

had had mentioned this before, but utilizing the different kits that you get or choose would be fun. Such as the herbalist kit to make healing potions, or the smithing kit to make/upgrade weapons and armor. The alchemist kit to make alchemist fire, resistance potions, etc. All these would take time to do, however, and they are only done if a character is staying at camp (not traveling with you), or if they are in your group, then can only be worked on during your long rests. This will also give those non-active characters something to do while they wait for you to come back. To avoid this from being abused (just spend everyday at camp), this is definitely where the rations come in. So you need to go buy/collect some before you can long rest again.

The wizard ability to learn new spells should also only happen during a shot rest. In PnP, the wizard needs to take time doing nothing else, other than copying/learning the spell from the scroll.

Have training at camp. Your inactive characters can spar, sling spells for practice and do other things related to their character, and as such they gain a little bit of experience. (This would remove the all characters whether they are in your party or not leveling at the same time when in essence they didn't do a damn thin except sleep all day at camp).

All these idea can be implemented when you go to camp, but don't have to be micromanaged which would be important.

They do care about DnD rules at Wizards.-