Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Great news! Height advantage not that impactful.

Sure, but again here you're just not really explaining why things are the case, you're just kind of insisting that they are. I think this does stem from you not knowing much about the system, but advantage is a huge deal in DnD, there are some incredibly powerful spells dedicated to giving you advantage and enemies disadvantage against you.
Simply claiming that it doesn't make spells useless because sometime you might fail to gain the high ground doesn't really make much sense, because why wouldn't you be better off spending your spells on gaining the high ground? What about all the abilities that give melee attackers advantage that are useless because you can always walk behind an enemy?

I don't believe it's much of an argument to say "well some fights don't have high ground so entire major abilities being turned into niche uses is fine". Like come on man, your point 3 here is "These 56 skills aren't useless, but also I don't know what they are" lol

From the EA so far, it's incredibly easy to gain and maintain the high ground in almost every fight, and the AI does a very poor job at forcing you off it. It also removes any real creative tactics, because it is almost always the main goal of every fight. It is generally the strongest position, drastically increases how much damage you're putting out, drastically decreases how much damage you're taking, there's not really any situation where you aren't going to want to just take high ground and stay there.

I'm not sure what your point about warlock is here either, like you picked a warlock, a class primarily focused on blasting, and are annoyed you spent a lot of time blasting? You get a few limited spell slots (that should be stronger because normally there's a limit on long resting), and you throw around eldritch blast a lot. That's what pretty much all warlocks do. it's still pretty much all you're doing in BG3 too, that's just the classes identity.

I think a lot of your points here have some validity, early game DnD combat can absolutely be a bit boring, but you're neglecting the other issues created by the solutions.
The issue here isn't that they tried to incorporate new stuff, it's that there's very little consideration about how that impacts other things. Jumping around constantly heavily reduces your need to care about protecting your backline, and takes away a lot of the rogue classes identity. Giving you effectively permanent advantage in most fights, and often effectively permanent disadvantage against you, hurts the amount of freedom you have in positioning and makes classes that can create similar as an effect later on much less impactful feeling. It also makes abilities that don't use a roll to hit much less impactful feeling.

I honestly feel as if you might benefit from rereading some of the discussions people have had on this topic, because like the answer to your last part in point 1 has been talked about a heap. You're not just going to be standing still like an idiot if you don't have permanent disadvantage against enemies, they're still trying to kill you and the high ground is still absolutely an advantageous position, it's just not universally the most important element of every single relevant fight in the game anymore.


If you're not keen on rereading those discussions, at least read up on bounded accuracy a bit, or skim through some of the core rules for 5e, they're all pretty easily found online. I don't think it's fair for others if you're hopping into a discussion about a system you admit you don't really understand, and declaring their takes on the changes wrong or that it's somehow depressing to read them.

˄Height advantage is HUGE in combat especially where you have range elements be it defense, accuracy, range, moral, everything it's the biggest advantage you can get combined all of those and you can stop huge numbers...

So i'm totally ok with a bigger numbers granted. I would be more happy if you could go prone to counter it but that would be asking to much just like overwatch. IF you were on ladder in the middle of nothing i would be fine with just range bonus...:)

As is, i know how important normal terrain height advantage is i mean +3 or whatever would be fine as well but that's not gonna fix the problems you have with combat. Because IF highground advantage is to big, then advantage it's to big for everything.
Due to the things i said before Hp and stuff... i was exaggerating a bit but still you get the point.


Like i said already they need to fix jump/disengage first before anything else. If you wasted 1 or two turns just to get to high ground no one would cry it's op.

But it looks like nothing is gonna change anyway so it's all pointless... and is just random forum fighting. So i'll use my Height advantage thank you and hope for mods and really hard and not a gimmicky Nighmare mode.

Height advantage just don't use it? Backstab advantage don't use it?

That's what i got when i was complaining about barrels and aoe arrows so just apply it here??.Don't use it ??... If those didn't go away, no way height advantage is changing the only thing that actually makes sense and is cool.
Even if you don't use those things the game is still ridiculously easy..

i agree backstab is broken but that's in part because jump/disengage - Attack of opportunity is broken.


If you remove situational Height advantage there is really nothing to do in the game tactically. 5e is so vanilla - boring due to the fuckin concentration limit and max 4 party limit. So the cross class combos are hardly there. And all you do is Auto attack especially at this low levers. Ow yeah i get Menacing Attack big deal it's still a glorified auto attack. :))

Why even bother with other stuff when you can just surprise and AA kill everything in two turns. Even if you don't use H.advantage and B.advantage you extend combat by one turn 2 MAX and that's if you unlucky... Everything still dies because base HP is so low for everything. And spells and abilities that do stuff are so rare thx to idiotic concentration limit.
Better of just throwing stuff, boot, other enemies whatever and enjoy how ridiculous everything is.

if you think changing Height advantage to +2 will make huge difference well whatever. Nothing will change.

Oh and lets not forget the AI. Stupid bad be it in Bg 3 or in Solasta it's so fucking bad it makes everything broken and easy.

And now you want them to remove the only good situational thing in the game and that's fighting for high ground. Meanwhile jump/disengage AoO will stay broken yeah sure GJ, way to make the game better.

Dude, why does he have to make a game theory argument?? He is simply explaining what he enjoys about the game, and your telling him well if you can't explain the theory behind why you like it, then your point doesn't matter. Basically making his point for him. This is admittedly a person who is not into D&D, picked up the game, and is simply trying to explain why HE likes it. Guess what, maybe he just doesn't give a sH&t about D&D 5e, and just wants to play a game that is fun with him? I think that is the point a lot of you are missing in this whole big, page after page argument. There is going to be 100s of thousands of players that buy this game that don't give a shit about the theory of 5e.

Dude, why does he have to make a game theory argument?? He is simply explaining what he enjoys about the game, and your telling him well if you can't explain the theory behind why you like it, then your point doesn't matter. Basically making his point for him. This is admittedly a person who is not into D&D, picked up the game, and is simply trying to explain why HE likes it. Guess what, maybe he just doesn't give a sH&t about D&D 5e, and just wants to play a game that is fun with him? I think that is the point a lot of you are missing in this whole big, page after page argument. There is going to be 100s of thousands of players that buy this game that don't give a shit about the theory of 5e.

And to add to this, people aren't just saying make the game closer to 5e. People are protesting because the some of the changes (and the total omission of certain features) have only served to create wildly worse imbalance rather than make the game any interesting on a tactical level. Going 'lol DnD isn't balanced!' as a defense means you don't actually have a real argument, because it's actually more balanced than whatever we have now.

The game balance forces any range dependent class to go to the high ground or else their attacks roll at disadvantage, that's dull and boring. It incentivizes the player to use Magic Missile over everything else. Ranged attacks don't really get a choice when it comes to high ground, if the player doesn't go for high ground they get arbitrary disadvantage. (From Threatened, other enemies being on high ground).

Lastly, this is why I'm leaning towards all the situations ranged attacks can be at disadvantage compared to melee as possibly the real root cause of the issue. Fighter gets to choose, wizard doesn't (Not limited to those two classes).

Person B) I disagree because "I just enjoy the game and I'm not sure why"

We need to fix jump first then move on from there..

Its true, but why this is boring? if you remove highground and you no need to deal with enemy on hg too, how it can be less boring? I assume that you will just attack from your starting position, why move or anything?

If its me, i guess i describe it correctly

I just don't get why "this make bless or other spells useless". You not always can be on hg, sometimes enemy on hg, so there many situations when this or other buff will help. And idk skills in dnd, but can assume that there some projectile with advantage or buff for allies. So they still will work for 90% of time too. And I don't feel that it lose to not be a Bless bot (or another strong buff with advantage), you just cast it when team really need it.

Well the core intent of 5e is that bonuses don't stack. The player takes the greater value that they've received. You see this throughout 5e. Examples: Temporary Hit Points from multiple sources, and Tortle's Natural Armor with Barbarian's Unarmored Defense.

Applying 5e's logic: if a player gains Advantage, Advantage would override a +2 to hit and not stack.

Can you expand on this please? Some of Jump is mod available.

one more crap thing from Dnd 5e... boring rules like i said.. but for some reason bless does stack. Whatever

And this is why i wouldn't bother with high ground at +2

yeah i know mods are around...and we all know what's wrong with jump, loads of different ways to fix it... the main thing is, it makes AoO pointless...

one more crap thing from Dnd 5e... boring rules like i said.. but for some reason bless does stack. Whatever

And this is why i wouldn't bother with high ground at +2

Dude, why does he have to make a game theory argument?? He is simply explaining what he enjoys about the game, and your telling him well if you can't explain the theory behind why you like it, then your point doesn't matter. Basically making his point for him. This is admittedly a person who is not into D&D, picked up the game, and is simply trying to explain why HE likes it. Guess what, maybe he just doesn't give a sH&t about D&D 5e, and just wants to play a game that is fun with him? I think that is the point a lot of you are missing in this whole big, page after page argument. There is going to be 100s of thousands of players that buy this game that don't give a shit about the theory of 5e.

There are a lot of forum posts explaining why, it's worth it to take the time to read through other forum posts. If you're really curious about skills in D&D, there are plenty of online resources. https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells

I don't wanna spoilers for me
But i read about entangle. so if you cast entangle on enemy on highground, it will remove disadvantage from your archers on low ground, who attacking this enemy. Or give advantage if it just plain territory. So spell still works great and improve you chances by a lot (if we saying that disadvantage have big impact). So why it (or any other spells with advantages) call useless in game with height advantages?

I guess i can answer by myself, becuase people only talking about situations, when you already on highground, and there no point to cast this type of spells to get advantage (because you already have it). True, but in act1 you not always on highground. And plus as you said, you can be out of range, so no point to rush on roof in each fights, when you just cast spell. So again, spells fine as for me.

Because making an argument about why a change to a system is good while openly admitting you don't know anything about the system is ridiculous. He outright says a point is wrong, but then immediately follows that up by saying he doesn't really know what the point is. He has no idea what is a good or bad design decision here, like he's outright arguing that advantage isn't that big a deal. It's not fair on anyone else to get into an argument like that without putting in even a tiny bit of effort to understand the topic. It's not like I didn't try to explain points to him.

100s of thousands of players won't ever get halfway through the game, building a game entirely around the casual audience is never a good idea. Should they just not bother including a good ending because only like 10% of people will even see it, and even less will be able to articulate why they have issues with it?

If you've got nothing constructive to add to a discussion, just don't comment.

Would you really use your action + 1 spell slots to try to remove the advantage of 1 ennemy ? (highgrounded ennemies aren't often packed).
I guess you'll try to go higher and/or dash because it doesn't cost any spell slot, won't you ? Verticality is everywhere. There are very few situations where you can't go highground very fast.

Entangle doesn't look useless at all to me if you're highgrounded. It's main effect is to stop a pack of ennemies coming to you (i.e melee ennemies rushing your positions).

All you do is try to make me looks like idiot. You exactly person from my first comment, and keep confirm it. Why i have no idea what is good or bad design? Why its big deal, if it not, and explained why. Or my opinion not legit, because i don't know names of spells? I smart enought to imagine what a type of spells it can be, if it was described as "spells and attack which give advantages"

Overall as i said before, on this forum only 1 option. You agree with maintain idea that movement\height stuff\shove bad, or you casual\moron and your opinion not important. Because if you smart, you should be agreed with it, obvious.