As it stands, why would anyone choose Moon > Land? Land druid still gets access to very powerful shapes that they shouldn't have access to, more spells, spell slot recovery, more cantrips, etc.
Moon druid gets a nerfed and gimp bear, which doesn't even do the most damage of all available forms (it should according to true 5e) and a Raven.
Funny how everyone is talking about moon druid being nerfed, since bear dont have multiattack on level 2 ... But nobody seem to have any problem with moon druids wild shape costs only bonus action. O_o
I would not say nerfed ... alterned.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
Funny how everyone is talking about moon druid being nerfed, since bear dont have multiattack on level 2 ... But nobody seem to have any problem with moon druids wild shape costs only bonus action. O_o
I would not say nerfed ... alterned.
Because Moon Druid shifting as a bonus action is from the PHB. It is exactly how it is supposed to work.
But they are also supposed to have exclusive access to CR1 wildshapes at level 2. Dire wolf and giant spider are both CR1 creatures, and although BG3 doesn't use the CR system they are still clearly competitive with the polar bear form in terms of combat power, which means the Land druid is just as good in wildshape combat as the Moon Druid.
Right now moon druid only gets their wildshape moved to a bonus action and one more form than the land druid even though they are supposed to be the dedicated shapeshifter sub-class. It isn't balanced.
Funny how everyone is talking about moon druid being nerfed, since bear dont have multiattack on level 2 ... But nobody seem to have any problem with moon druids wild shape costs only bonus action. O_o
I would not say nerfed ... alterned.
Because Moon Druid shifting as a bonus action is from the PHB. It is exactly how it is supposed to work.
But they are also supposed to have exclusive access to CR1 wildshapes at level 2. Dire wolf and giant spider are both CR1 creatures, and although BG3 doesn't use the CR system they are still clearly competitive with the polar bear form in terms of combat power, which means the Land druid is just as good in wildshape combat as the Moon Druid.
Right now moon druid only gets their wildshape moved to a bonus action and one more form than the land druid even though they are supposed to be the dedicated shapeshifter sub-class. It isn't balanced.
They will either need to add more powerful Moon Druid Exclusive forms or tone back the forms Land Druids can get I think (and uh give the animals the stats they are supposed to, like multi attack), cause otherwise the two Subclasses are fairly balanced and closish to what they are supposed to except for the discrepancy in forms.
They will either need to add more powerful Moon Druid Exclusive forms or tone back the forms Land Druids can get I think (and uh give the animals the stats they are supposed to, like multi attack), cause otherwise the two Subclasses are fairly balanced and closish to what they are supposed to except for the discrepancy in forms.
I'd probably just make dire wolf and giant spider exclusive to moon druid. Giant badger is decent but doesn't have the HP to really stick it out in a big fight, so it leaves land druids in a decent spot where they have some combat forms to fall back on but mostly want them from the utility of what those forms can do while the moon druid wants the actual combat power.
They will either need to add more powerful Moon Druid Exclusive forms or tone back the forms Land Druids can get I think (and uh give the animals the stats they are supposed to, like multi attack), cause otherwise the two Subclasses are fairly balanced and closish to what they are supposed to except for the discrepancy in forms.
I'd probably just make dire wolf and giant spider exclusive to moon druid. Giant badger is decent but doesn't have the HP to really stick it out in a big fight, so it leaves land druids in a decent spot where they have some combat forms to fall back on but mostly want them from the utility of what those forms can do while the moon druid wants the actual combat power.
I'd probably add more in general, but yeah that sounds like a good start. Maybe give both Boar, Squirrel, Normal Wolf, Panther, Elk, and Goat, maybe even centipede and snake. And then to the moon add in Lion, Tiger, eagle, and uh maybe some big bug?
I'd probably add more in general, but yeah that sounds like a good start. Maybe give both Boar, Squirrel, Normal Wolf, Panther, Elk, and Goat, maybe even centipede and snake. And then to the moon add in Lion, Tiger, eagle, and uh maybe some big bug?
They did say that these are just the forms in for now. They didn't promise anything, but it sounded like they wanted to add more forms later.
Which they'd kind of need to anyway. Larian said we'll be going to level 10, and at level 8 land druids get the CR1 creatures while at level 6th level Moon druids get forms equal in CR to their druid level divided by 3. So at level 6 they get 2CR creatures like the cave bear, allosaurus, or giant elk (polar bear is supposed to be CR2, but it seems Larian just re-skinned the brown bear white for some reason). Then at level 9 they get CR3 like the ankylosaur or giant scorpion.
You can't really do the druid class without unlocking more and more forms the higher your level goes. This is especially true for moon druid since their entire sub-class is about becoming the really big, powerful creatures.
Because Moon Druid shifting as a bonus action is from the PHB. It is exactly how it is supposed to work.
But they are also supposed to have exclusive access to CR1 wildshapes at level 2. Dire wolf and giant spider are both CR1 creatures, and although BG3 doesn't use the CR system they are still clearly competitive with the polar bear form in terms of combat power, which means the Land druid is just as good in wildshape combat as the Moon Druid.
Right now moon druid only gets their wildshape moved to a bonus action and one more form than the land druid even though they are supposed to be the dedicated shapeshifter sub-class. It isn't balanced.
I see ... well, my informations were only based on Swel specificly saying: "Jeremy is that okay that we change rules like this?" (at 56:28)
I presumed that was taking another forum with bonus action ... Now im not quite sure where that change is, is it that dismisisng form being free?
Originally Posted by SaurianDruid
Larian said we'll be going to level 10
Nope, Swen allready told us somewhere around first or second patch (too lazy to search) that they allready see that level 10 is too low and we certainly will be able to reach a little abowe. Didnt tell how much abowe yet, but its certain that 10 will not be our cap.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
I want to say it was because of the dismissing being free, meaning in a turn you could theoretically go from animal to humanoid to animal again and still attack which I actually think is an ok change to the rules as it doesn't shake up balance much and makes it smoother for a videogame
(Then again, I don't really play druid in tabletop, or rather play druid often enough to have an informed opinion, so I could be completely wrong)
Now im not quite sure where that change is, is it that dismisisng form being free?
Exactly. But the question Jeremy had to ask "Why are you forsing me in my human form befor switching animals?" Switching shapes in one turn is possible in PnP. They changed the rules to solve the problem, they themself introduced.
Starting at 2nd level, you can use your action to magically assume the shape of a beast that you have seen before. You can use this feature twice. You regain expended uses when you finish a short or long rest.
Your druid level determines the beasts you can transform into, as shown in the Beast Shapes table. At 2nd level, for example, you can transform into any beast that has a challenge rating of 1/4 or lower that doesn’t have a flying or swimming speed.
You can stay in a beast shape for a number of hours equal to half your druid level (rounded down). You then revert to your normal form unless you expend another use of this feature. You can revert to your normal form earlier by using a bonus action on your turn. You automatically revert if you fall unconscious, drop to 0 hit points, or die.
While you are transformed, the following rules apply:
Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast, but you retain your alignment, personality, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature’s bonus instead of yours. If the creature has any legendary or lair actions, you can’t use them. When you transform, you assume the beast’s hit points and Hit Dice. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed. However, if you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. For example, if you take 10 damage in animal form and have only 1 hit point left, you revert and take 9 damage. As long as the excess damage doesn’t reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you aren’t knocked unconscious. You can’t cast spells, and your ability to speak or take any action that requires hands is limited to the capabilities of your beast form. Transforming doesn’t break your concentration on a spell you’ve already cast, however, or prevent you from taking actions that are part of a spell, such as call lightning, that you’ve already cast. You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense. You choose whether your equipment falls to the ground in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it. Worn equipment functions as normal, but the DM decides whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creature’s shape and size. Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can’t wear must either fall to the ground or merge with it. Equipment that merges with the form has no effect until you leave the form. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Copied from PHB]
When you choose this circle at 2nd level, you gain the ability to use Wild Shape on your turn as a bonus action, rather than as an action. Additionally, while you are transformed by Wild Shape. you can use a bonus action to expend one spell slot to regain ld8 hit points per level of the spell slot expended. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turns out Dismissing is a bonus action in RAW, I could not find anything indicating that you could or could not switch forms while in beast form to another beast. By making dismissing free though, they essentially allow you to switch forms with only a bonus action without having to program a a new thing in each wildshape for changing to other forms (which could just be copy paste but eh). Depending on ruling, it is possible that this is them roundabout allowing something that is normally not allowed or is a roundabout way of enabling something that is allowed without complicating it. That said, I do like dismissing being free as a small buff in general.
When you choose this circle at 2nd level, you gain the ability to use Wild Shape on your turn as a bonus action, rather than as an action. Additionally, while you are transformed by Wild Shape. you can use a bonus action to expend one spell slot to regain ld8 hit points per level of the spell slot expended. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turns out Dismissing is a bonus action in RAW, I could not find anything indicating that you could or could not switch forms while in beast form to another beast. By making dismissing free though, they essentially allow you to switch forms with only a bonus action without having to program a a new thing in each wildshape for changing to other forms (which could just be copy paste but eh). Depending on ruling, it is possible that this is them roundabout allowing something that is normally not allowed or is a roundabout way of enabling something that is allowed without complicating it. That said, I do like dismissing being free as a small buff in general.
If I'm understanding correctly (RAW you can transform directly from a beast to another beast; BG3 you can free action dismiss your form then bonus action into a new form) then the true buff is the standard action allowed between the wildshapes. In BG3 you can: free action dismiss wild shape -> standard action cast spell/use scroll/etc -> bonus action wild shape. This is pretty powerful as it allows you to cast Concentration spells that you may have lost while wildshaped, or heal party members, or one of so many other options. Basically you get the benefits of being a caster and being wildshaped, whereas in 5e RAW you somewhat have to choose whether to stay wildshaped or cast spells.
[Copied from DnD Beyond] You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. [Copied from PHB] I could not find anything indicating that you could or could not switch forms while in beast form to another beast
This sentence. Whild shape is your class feature that doesn't have any specification on what you need to do to transform. Therefor by RAW you don't need to do anything other than just announce that you are using this ability.
[Copied from DnD Beyond] You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. [Copied from PHB] I could not find anything indicating that you could or could not switch forms while in beast form to another beast
This sentence. Whild shape is your class feature that doesn't have any specification on what you need to do to transform. Therefor by RAW you don't need to do anything other than just announce that you are using this ability.
Ah, I missed that. Then switching to human then another beast is a roundabout way of going through things, enabling spells.
I agree that there is some issue with druid subclass balance at the moment as stated already.
My HOPE, however, is that there is a reason behind this? Druid Shapeshifting is probably the BIGGEST thing that needs testing for the druid class, more than just the spells (my god that flaming sphere keeps killing my own party out of combat as it starts to follow along).
As such, the best way to get the most data out of all the wildshapes would be just to give it to each druid as they have now (minus Polar Bear). So I hope that down the road, the Land Druid gets some of this taken down a notch while the Moon Druid gets to keep things. I even understand the Bear form being weakened as, let's face it (and as Druid being my FAVORITE class in DND), they are straight bonkers at level 2. My hope is that maybe at level 4 or 5 they give the bear its multiattack back but I can definitely see a fear of the druids making content a cake walk early on. Heck they not only nerfed the multiattack but they also nerfed the fact its SUPPOSED to be doing 2d6 damage instead of 2d4 (another change I hope they make. Let them do Greatsword damage if you're taking away their multiattack).
