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OP
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Joined: Sep 2020
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So as far as I can tell, your issues are completely avoidable by using in-game features. You know you can manually enter turn based mode at any point right? And that this does not put you straight into combat?
Scenario 1:
You get your party into position to start the fight. The guard leaves the room. You press SPACE and enter turn based mode. That guard will use his Round 1 Movement and will then stop until the game detects all your party members have ended their turn. You can literally go make dinner, come back, and he will still be where his turn's movement finished unless you ended all your party's turns.
Scenario 2:
You miss your first turn because you get a free turn when you enter the fight; as long as you don't just try to walk straight into it anyway. If you attack from range, or can sneak in avoiding detection, you get a free hit before you even roll for initiative. You do need to not stand in the middle of the battlefield, but it's very doable.
As a single example of both situations, take the adventurers at the ruined chapel. I generally have Gale and my warlock hiding behind the wall behind the archer, Astarion hiding behind the statue, and Shadowheart starting dialogue and the fight. I move my warlock up behind the archer to get a visual on the patrolling mage. When she is at the top of the ruin, across from the archer, I press Space and move my warlock back behind the wall. The mage is now fixed there until her next turn. Shadowheart starts the fight by walking up to Gimblebock. Everyone else is hidden. Hopefully she rolls good Initiative but if not she might need to tank a hit or 2. The mage will waste her first turn casting Mage Armour. My warlock will NOT cast Hex which will pull her into combat, but use Eldritch Blast with Repelling Blast to either knock the archer off his crate if he hasn't moved, or down the steps if he moved to get a shot at Shadowheart. The way is now clear for Gale to move up to the crate and Magic Missile the mage to death. Astarion then moves around the statue using Cunning Action:Dash to backstab whichever melee enemy is more threatening to Shadowheart. Shadowheart then Inflicts Wounds to finish them. Everyone in the party is now in combat, everyone in the party has made an attack action. Round 2 commences...
I haven't played DoS so won't comment on 3 & 4, but for this game just enter turn-based mode outside of combat and everyone is forced to use their movement, action and bonus action one turn at a time, whether they are in combat or not. If you'd read the rest of the thread you'd already know, that your first solution isn't working at all. The game actually has 3 modes: real-time, turn-based, battle. When you start a fight from a turn-based mode, the game turns-it off going to default state of real-time mode and then goes to the battle mode. Plus it won't ever work if the fight starts through a conversation. Second also not a solution and you should realize it yourself, the moment you wrote "Hopefully she rolls good Initiative but if not she might need to tank a hit or 2". And It's not enough you're trying to solve through lucky roll the problem that could be solved through properly working scripts, the rest of your scenario comes with assumptions that: no NPC would stumble on any of your stealth-ed characters, while doing their turn (they do sometimes), you'll never need to use your bonus action or movement after an attack on any of your characters.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2021
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It does turn off because you get the opportunity to attack; you can select an OOC person and turn it on again and revert to that state after 1 turn.
It's not solving a problem through a lucky roll, it's risking paying a price for trying to get a full free round of attacks without penalty instead of joining a fight as a single group; and using the highest AC character with most healing to do it. It also has the added benefit of forcing any enemy who rolls higher Initiative to target who I want, instead of the weakest in the party they would otherwise do.
As to being found or needing to use movement or bonus action, that comes down to planning. Plan better. I've not found a single encounter in the game that forces you to attack from one direction, on one level, or with one group.
Last edited by Elessaria666; 29/03/21 02:28 PM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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So as far as I can tell, your issues are completely avoidable by using in-game features. You know you can manually enter turn based mode at any point right? And that this does not put you straight into combat?
Scenario 1:
You get your party into position to start the fight. The guard leaves the room. You press SPACE and enter turn based mode. That guard will use his Round 1 Movement and will then stop until the game detects all your party members have ended their turn. You can literally go make dinner, come back, and he will still be where his turn's movement finished unless you ended all your party's turns.
Scenario 2:
You miss your first turn because you get a free turn when you enter the fight; as long as you don't just try to walk straight into it anyway. If you attack from range, or can sneak in avoiding detection, you get a free hit before you even roll for initiative. You do need to not stand in the middle of the battlefield, but it's very doable.
As a single example of both situations, take the adventurers at the ruined chapel. I generally have Gale and my warlock hiding behind the wall behind the archer, Astarion hiding behind the statue, and Shadowheart starting dialogue and the fight. I move my warlock up behind the archer to get a visual on the patrolling mage. When she is at the top of the ruin, across from the archer, I press Space and move my warlock back behind the wall. The mage is now fixed there until her next turn. Shadowheart starts the fight by walking up to Gimblebock. Everyone else is hidden. Hopefully she rolls good Initiative but if not she might need to tank a hit or 2. The mage will waste her first turn casting Mage Armour. My warlock will NOT cast Hex which will pull her into combat, but use Eldritch Blast with Repelling Blast to either knock the archer off his crate if he hasn't moved, or down the steps if he moved to get a shot at Shadowheart. The way is now clear for Gale to move up to the crate and Magic Missile the mage to death. Astarion then moves around the statue using Cunning Action:Dash to backstab whichever melee enemy is more threatening to Shadowheart. Shadowheart then Inflicts Wounds to finish them. Everyone in the party is now in combat, everyone in the party has made an attack action. Round 2 commences...
I haven't played DoS so won't comment on 3 & 4, but for this game just enter turn-based mode outside of combat and everyone is forced to use their movement, action and bonus action one turn at a time, whether they are in combat or not. If you'd read the rest of the thread you'd already know, that your first solution isn't working at all. The game actually has 3 modes: real-time, turn-based, battle. When you start a fight from a turn-based mode, the game turns-it off going to default state of real-time mode and then goes to the battle mode. Plus it won't ever work if the fight starts through a conversation. Second also not a solution and you should realize it yourself, the moment you wrote "Hopefully she rolls good Initiative but if not she might need to tank a hit or 2". And It's not enough you're trying to solve through lucky roll the problem that could be solved through properly working scripts, the rest of your scenario comes with assumptions that: no NPC would stumble on any of your stealth-ed characters, while doing their turn (they do sometimes), you'll never need to use your bonus action or movement after an attack on any of your characters. This is plainly false. In all 3 of my playthroughs, I start the Githyanki patrol fight with Lazael. after positioning my druid and Shadowheart prebuffed right besides her, but leave Gale stealthed in the barricades overlooking the patrol. My 3 characters are put in combat, but Gale is not, I can then give him a free surprise attack or apply Hex and not waste a turn. It's usually more efficient to open from stealth for a surprise attack with an offensive spell that takes an action slot, as you don't use bonus actions much with spellcasters unless it's for misty step outside your first turn application of Hex. It is very easy for every single encounter to start the fight through sneak and turn based mode to guarantee yourself a backstab surprise attack. I do it to Bulette all the time and it's virtually how I get 8 free actions on him and kill him in one turn, because each character I open from with stealth gets 2 actions on him before surprised wears off him. Same for Ethel. They both die without being able to take a single action because they get bursted down before it's even their turn. The only boss in the EA who does not reliably lose a turn while surprised is the Beholder, as he will sometimes unfreeze a Drow even when surprised and CC the surprising party by going first himself despite the surprise attack. But that's the single exception in all of EA. Stealth is abundantly broken in EA, and turn-based mode practically removes all the challenge of sneaking to land a backstab attack on an enemy because it lets you virtually freeze their movement as you close in behind them. I don't know how someone can argue that stealthing around for backstab/surprise attacks is difficult at all. The only sorta exception is the Zhentarim holdout where you can't stealth to the top floor where the dumbass lady sits before it triggers her conversation asking you to kill your Zhentarim buddy who you were planning to sell the chest with. Other than that, no single other forced dialogue. You can surprise attack every encounter. If I wanted to be cheap with Githyanki patrol, I could park her way behind in stealth mode so she doesn't trigger after the dragon scene and walk down herself, but throw a caustic bulb into a void bulb and surprise attack the entire Githyanki cohort and CC them into a ball with acid status in a single surprse round. That puts the person throwing the item in combat. I then pull off sneak on the rest of my team to position them for a surprise or backstab advantage surprise attack individually and proceed to melt the patrol. But none of that is even necessary because as long as I can land a Frightening Strike on Baretha with Lazael, the fight is over. The two casters always teleport to the top of the barricade to try to blow my team with height advantage, Gale always is there to misty step behind and punt them to their deaths with Thunderwave, and if he fails the attack roll for the punt, my druid then flies behind them and does another Thunderwave attempt and finishes them off. That leaves the Raider and the other 2H guy to clean up, which is easy enough for a party of 4. You use Gale's rank 2 missiles to eliminate the main threats if Lazael's action surge combo misses in any way, otherwise Lazael with Acion Surge+Frightening Strike 2-3 shots Baretha through CC. The only time thsi fight becomes remotely challenging is if you leave Lazael at camp and bring the useless Wyll instead to miss half his spells like most casters who don't have access to the only reliable spell in the game, Magic Missiles.
Last edited by Zenith; 30/03/21 04:10 AM.
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addict
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OP
addict
Joined: Sep 2020
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So as far as I can tell, your issues are completely avoidable by using in-game features. You know you can manually enter turn based mode at any point right? And that this does not put you straight into combat?
Scenario 1:
You get your party into position to start the fight. The guard leaves the room. You press SPACE and enter turn based mode. That guard will use his Round 1 Movement and will then stop until the game detects all your party members have ended their turn. You can literally go make dinner, come back, and he will still be where his turn's movement finished unless you ended all your party's turns.
Scenario 2:
You miss your first turn because you get a free turn when you enter the fight; as long as you don't just try to walk straight into it anyway. If you attack from range, or can sneak in avoiding detection, you get a free hit before you even roll for initiative. You do need to not stand in the middle of the battlefield, but it's very doable.
As a single example of both situations, take the adventurers at the ruined chapel. I generally have Gale and my warlock hiding behind the wall behind the archer, Astarion hiding behind the statue, and Shadowheart starting dialogue and the fight. I move my warlock up behind the archer to get a visual on the patrolling mage. When she is at the top of the ruin, across from the archer, I press Space and move my warlock back behind the wall. The mage is now fixed there until her next turn. Shadowheart starts the fight by walking up to Gimblebock. Everyone else is hidden. Hopefully she rolls good Initiative but if not she might need to tank a hit or 2. The mage will waste her first turn casting Mage Armour. My warlock will NOT cast Hex which will pull her into combat, but use Eldritch Blast with Repelling Blast to either knock the archer off his crate if he hasn't moved, or down the steps if he moved to get a shot at Shadowheart. The way is now clear for Gale to move up to the crate and Magic Missile the mage to death. Astarion then moves around the statue using Cunning Action:Dash to backstab whichever melee enemy is more threatening to Shadowheart. Shadowheart then Inflicts Wounds to finish them. Everyone in the party is now in combat, everyone in the party has made an attack action. Round 2 commences...
I haven't played DoS so won't comment on 3 & 4, but for this game just enter turn-based mode outside of combat and everyone is forced to use their movement, action and bonus action one turn at a time, whether they are in combat or not. If you'd read the rest of the thread you'd already know, that your first solution isn't working at all. The game actually has 3 modes: real-time, turn-based, battle. When you start a fight from a turn-based mode, the game turns-it off going to default state of real-time mode and then goes to the battle mode. Plus it won't ever work if the fight starts through a conversation. Second also not a solution and you should realize it yourself, the moment you wrote "Hopefully she rolls good Initiative but if not she might need to tank a hit or 2". And It's not enough you're trying to solve through lucky roll the problem that could be solved through properly working scripts, the rest of your scenario comes with assumptions that: no NPC would stumble on any of your stealth-ed characters, while doing their turn (they do sometimes), you'll never need to use your bonus action or movement after an attack on any of your characters. This is plainly false. In all 3 of my playthroughs, I start the Githyanki patrol fight with Lazael. after positioning my druid and Shadowheart prebuffed right besides her, but leave Gale stealthed in the barricades overlooking the patrol. My 3 characters are put in combat, but Gale is not, I can then give him a free surprise attack or apply Hex and not waste a turn. It's usually more efficient to open from stealth for a surprise attack with an offensive spell that takes an action slot, as you don't use bonus actions much with spellcasters unless it's for misty step outside your first turn application of Hex. It is very easy for every single encounter to start the fight through sneak and turn based mode to guarantee yourself a backstab surprise attack. I do it to Bulette all the time and it's virtually how I get 8 free actions on him and kill him in one turn, because each character I open from with stealth gets 2 actions on him before surprised wears off him. Same for Ethel. They both die without being able to take a single action because they get bursted down before it's even their turn. The only boss in the EA who does not reliably lose a turn while surprised is the Beholder, as he will sometimes unfreeze a Drow even when surprised and CC the surprising party by going first himself despite the surprise attack. But that's the single exception in all of EA. Stealth is abundantly broken in EA, and turn-based mode practically removes all the challenge of sneaking to land a backstab attack on an enemy because it lets you virtually freeze their movement as you close in behind them. I don't know how someone can argue that stealthing around for backstab/surprise attacks is difficult at all. The only sorta exception is the Zhentarim holdout where you can't stealth to the top floor where the dumbass lady sits before it triggers her conversation asking you to kill your Zhentarim buddy who you were planning to sell the chest with. Other than that, no single other forced dialogue. You can surprise attack every encounter. If I wanted to be cheap with Githyanki patrol, I could park her way behind in stealth mode so she doesn't trigger after the dragon scene and walk down herself, but throw a caustic bulb into a void bulb and surprise attack the entire Githyanki cohort and CC them into a ball with acid status in a single surprse round. That puts the person throwing the item in combat. I then pull off sneak on the rest of my team to position them for a surprise or backstab advantage surprise attack individually and proceed to melt the patrol. But none of that is even necessary because as long as I can land a Frightening Strike on Baretha with Lazael, the fight is over. The two casters always teleport to the top of the barricade to try to blow my team with height advantage, Gale always is there to misty step behind and punt them to their deaths with Thunderwave, and if he fails the attack roll for the punt, my druid then flies behind them and does another Thunderwave attempt and finishes them off. That leaves the Raider and the other 2H guy to clean up, which is easy enough for a party of 4. You use Gale's rank 2 missiles to eliminate the main threats if Lazael's action surge combo misses in any way, otherwise Lazael with Acion Surge+Frightening Strike 2-3 shots Baretha through CC. The only time thsi fight becomes remotely challenging is if you leave Lazael at camp and bring the useless Wyll instead to miss half his spells like most casters who don't have access to the only reliable spell in the game, Magic Missiles. We are not talking about the surprise attack here. Read the thread, maybe?
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