Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Druid forms need to inherit AC from humanoid.

And what's the problem ?

The moon druid looks pretty powerfull from 1-4 and I read a lot of people saying that land is even more (not my feeling but anyway).

The problem is land druids get the same forms and also get additional spells. Moon druids can shape shift with a bonus action but that seems like a bad trade off.

Land druids should not have equivalent forms of moon druids. They are designed to be more spell casters.

I for one am glad the bear form doesn't get multi attack. It would basically make the moon druid a trap class, with one form clearly surpassing all the others. I'm sure they'll add better forms later on.

I'm currently playing a game with all custom companions including two druids, one land one moon, to see them compared to each other. Each has their own strengths.

The one gripe I would have about land is that coastal is by far and away the best pick unless you're going for another for rp reasons. Mirror image and misty step are just so powerful. It can melee, summon, teleport, set terrain difficulties, tank, heal, has guidance and enhance ability for skill rolls outside of combat and wildshape to boot. Play as a woodelf and you have longbows and stealth and perception with 16 dex too. The most versatile class offered so far in the EA. It can basically replace any of the companions in their roles, probably the easiest to solo the game tbh now.

If you're just going to play moon druid as basically bear form, it will seem lacking compared. But it can be much more versatile than that. You can dismiss wildshape as a free action and activate it as a bonus action. This sets up some really interesting combinations. You can take on raven form then fly to hard to reach places and cast a spell in one round, thunderwave or spike growth or moonbeam being good options. You can take on wolf form and backstab exposing bite, which makes the next attack against the enemy crit. That's really powerful. If Shadowheart crits on a level 2 inflict wounds it could outright kill all but the toughest 4 enemies in the game and for those it will likely reduce their hp in half. Or she could hit it with guiding light for a guaranteed crit and the next attack after that has advantage too. Scorching ray and menacing attack do pretty decent damage on a crit too. The deep rothe and badger have cc abilities too. The spider can attack and then cast web as a bonus action. It's such a cool class. It's all about choosing the right form for the right situation, very tactical and a lot of fun if you get it right.

And, if you are still in bear shape and have a short rest if all else fails that's basically 90 points of hp the enemy has to burn through while your teammates are doing damage. I agree though, that's a pretty boring way to play the class.

The point you mentioned about Shadowheart not doing any damage is because so many people complained that a 10 dex, which she had originally, was too low for a trickster cleric. Unfortunately Larian decided she still needed to be hot, so they took the points from strength. Her best actual melee weapon now is a dagger, because she can use her proficiency bonus for attack and damage and although the other weapons she's proficient in have a higher base damage the 2 from dex and to hit supersedes this. Her best weapon overall now though is a light crossbow, which sort of wastes her high ac and mirror image.

No, you are ... and you are using it wrong.

It seem to me like you wish to use bear the same as Bear in WoW is working ...
Can handle lots of damage, deals lots of damage, especialy AoE damage, can heal evectively ... and kinda never needs to leave its form. :-/
This game simply have different approach, and you dont play big strong durable tank ... you play versatile class that have many interesting options to use, wich you decided to ignore and complain about not being able to stand many more damage with one of your seven forms. O_o

To me, most interesting form for Moon Druid is raven ... you fly to the roof, thorn-whip enemy down ... or blind sniper and then dismis your form and shove him down ... there is many options, you just need to use them. :-/

Moon Druid on level 2 is OP as hells, since you have double HP and simmilar, if not same AC as every other tanks ...
True, on level 3 its kinda simmilar (read as ballanced if you wish) ...
And on level 4 you are weaker than usual tank, not AS MUCH if you use certain spells, but still weaker ...

And that is how its suppose to be. O_o
On level 5 you are suppose to get stronger transforms, and once again be OP as hells ...
Then it goes lower, and lower ... and then you once again are suppose to be king of the forest.

True, druids should be quite stronger than they are now, since you are suppose to relocate your moonbeam even in form, you are suppose to have pact tactics, mutiattack and other stuff ...
But nothing of it have anything common with your AC.

Maybe you should have ... it seem like it would suit you better.

The only enemy i can think of wich give you 17-25dmg per turn it either broodmother, wich you should be able to ignore in your spider form ... Githyanki patrol, wich is beating everyone's ass without proper preparations, since they are level 5 ... and maybe Bulette, or Minotaurs ...
Anyway kinda short list to judge whole class as useless. O_o

Well, if you positioned your casters so poorly, you cant be surprised by the fact they were killed.

Honnestly the bear is really better than any other form according to me for its 30 HP + its 21 strenght.

The other forms are good in several situations but I never used them in combats (except sometimes the badger to move, but it require 2 actions if you're a land druid)
The bird is not that much because you can't transform (bonus action) + jump (bonus action) in the same turn so it's incredible mobility is not really usefull in combats.

The bonus action instead of action is a huge trade off according to me.
2 * 30 HP as a bonus action is like many healing potions and you still have decent damages (2D4 +5).
You can use your action for whatever you want + get those 30 HP.

And because it costs nothing to go back to your normal form, if your bear has something like 10 HP left... You only use a bonus action to get 30 HP again (using your action between the 2 forms if you whish).

Maybe at higher level it will become a problem but seriously atm I don't think it is one at all.

On the other hand land druids are supposed to be better spellcaster but they don't have more spellslots. They have powerfull spells that gives them another versatility but honnestly I think both are pretty well balanced with their own PRO/CON.

You don't jump with the raven you fly. It is a movement action, one which travels a massive distance both horizontally and vertically. AND ignores difficult terrain and ground effects.

After that you still have your bonus action and action. It's super powerful.

edit just tested it in the Zentarim cave where they set the place on fire. I was able to fly to the exit in one round without getting burned and I still had my action and bonus action

Nope, no bonus action cost ... only speed.
I didnt get on such high level with Moon Druid ... but i just double checked Panel from hells 2 and this is what i found:

- I don't know if you've ever played any recent WoW, but Guardian Druids are among the worst tank in the game for 2 straight expansions in the last combined 4+ years, so I don't think you know what you're talking about. They have the least self healing after warriors of the tanks, and their damage has been 3rd-4th place for the entirety of those years. Please don't bring up topics to lecture that you are not well informed in.

- I don't decide to ignore the versatility, I merely point out it's suboptimal because I can just grab my Laezel with Razglin's hammer and proceed to half HP Aunt Ethel in one turn and put her on frightened so I can kill her in the next 2 turns. She didn't even get the chance to call her illusions or set Myrena's cage on fire because all it took was Moonbeam from my druid and 3 attack turns from my Laezel (First attack turn to set Frightened, action surge for a 2nd within the same turn, then the last strike in the 2nd turn; combined with moonbeam 3 ticks).

If I had followed your lecture about versatility and tried to wildshape to a useless bear instead of staying caster so I can reposition moonbeam and melee with Sheleighlah for about 3-4 more damage in humanoid than my bear can ever hope for, while maintaining access to my healing spells as well, it is YOUR reasoning that is flawed because wildshape limits my options instead of widening them.

In this game versatility matters jack-all. Against Aunt Ethel, against Githyanki Patrol, against Spider Queen, etc, the best strategy is always to be able to BURST the main threat out of existence in as few turns as possible to remove as many threats from retaliation as possible on the next turn. And Lazael and fighters by far have the most reliable hit rates right now in the game with the greatest damage potential to boot thanks to how strong 2H fighter damage is on top of dipping weapons for bonus damage and applying poisons. Lazael's 2 turns of 20+ damage strikes with action surge is an unrivaled amount of damage, and there will never be any better utility than killing the enemy quick before they put your non-elf party members to sleep/prone/charmed.

- Yes, because casters can be positioned so well to survive when getting hit by enemy archers and casters, who play by the same rules you do in terms of line of sight requirements to land spells. I guess I should hide them under a rock instead and let them be safely useless /s

The only mistake I'll admit to is trying to RP a Tiefling druid, because at this point playing anything that is not an elf caster or a githyanki fighter is trolling, as the the elf race's immunity to sleep/charm on top of the extra AC from DEX and extra 3m movement is so ridiculously strong compared to the worse racials of the Tieflings and humans.

I’m not sure what you are hoping for. You are asking to buff wild shape. Okay. But by your own admission, Ethel can be killed very easily now.

How is buffing wild shape going to make Ethel a balanced encounter? And surely you’d have to buff the other classes as well (as you alluded with Shadowheart). I mean Ethel won’t even be able to attack.

Or are you suggesting Ethel should have over 250 HP? We are starting to get to escalation of power then.

Mate, I don't want to come across as confrontational, but it does seem you made some less than optimal choices and had some unrealistic expectations and are now blaming the whole system.

Firstly you're comparing your damage with a fighter. Seriously, this is supposed to be their forte, especially early game where menacing strike and action surge compare favourably with enemies health pools. What if your menacing strike missed or Ethel makes her save, which has happened in a few of my games. The later battle is tough just to blast it out in melee. The other classes add a lot to the later battle. Like I said before if you had have hit Ethel with an exposing bite it would have doubled Laezel's damage, certainly a lot more useful than whatever you got from moonbeam.

Casters' whole deal is supposed to be their versatility, at least early until they get their big spells later. Moon druids is their versatility in forms. Asking to do the same damage as a fighter that can attack twice with action surge is a bit much. Who would play as a fighter then?

Laezal's action surge doesn't do much in the githyanki fight with so many dangerous enemies. Also movement is a problem for fighters, especially facing foes that can teleport or jump great distances. Sure, she can cast jump as a racial spell, but that takes an action and is a racial ability not a native one to fighters.

If you want a really strong druid, roll a wood elf coastal land druid like I said. I have a feeling you'll enjoy the game a lot more.

Looks like GWM deals a lot of damages to players...
Now everyone assume that any fighter deals +10 damages.

Easy advantage's fault.

Thanks Crash and Ragnarok for the advice with the bird. Have to admit that I don't tried for a few hours thinking it was a bonus action. This changes everything and my moon druid is gonna be even more versatile.

New solutions for hard encounters !

Sounds like you might prefer playing a fighter.

The Ethel fight wasn't trivialized by my druid. It was trivialized by a Githyanki fighter, which is the whole point that I'm making. Githyanki fighters are completely eclipsing the other classes because of how concentration and spellcasting currently works in this game, as well as wildshape.


It wouldn't have made a difference other than annoy me. Already did that fight earlier where in 3 turns Ethel was at 30 HP, I just had to reset it because for some ridiculous reason my Shadowheart kept saying the cage on fire was too far for her to cast create water on to turn it off, and Myrena fell.

If I didn't care for Myrena for completion's sake, I would have still trounced Ethel without the Fear save, and the exposing bite is dependent on saves as well, and the wolf's hit chance on Ethel is considerably worse than Lazael.

Ethel also starts way too far for your wolf to get a backstab exposing bite within one turn, so you actually get much more damage off by casting moon beam and getting off 3 ticks of 8+ damage on Ethel within 2 turns on top of then being able to melee her with Sheleighlah for another 11 damage.

And the Githyanki patrol is all about eliminating the dual wielder quickly. Once you kill off the melee leaders, the fight becomes a ton easier, and Lazael thrives in dispatching melee enemies.

Moreover, movement is not remotely an issue for Lazael because you easily get Amulet of Misty Step off Minthara early, completely removing the key weakness of the fighter class. It's not like Lazael does bad damage from range either; with a Longbow +1 she is doing more than double the damage Shadowheart can ever hope to do with Sacred Flame (won't even mention Guiding Bolt, considering that spell only hits when the planets align), and about as much damage as a level 1 spell from Gale or Wyll without eating up a spell slot.



Another nonsequitur.

I'm not interested in the slightest in playing a fighter or care much for Lazael as a character, which is why it annoys me to no end how much better fighters are currently to everybody else.

Removing Lazael from your group significantly gimps you in battles. It's that simple. And it needs to be balanced for people that want variety in composition without handicapping themselves.

Understood. So are you asking to nerf fighters? Because as long as Lae’zel stays the same, she trivializes all the encounters. By buffing everyone else, you would trivialize the encounters even more.

The lower AC of animals is to balance out the HP Bloat druids get, even disregarding Tabletop Balance, in here it provides a balance so that Druid does not completely over take the roles of every class. Druids are tanky, but they are meant to be tanky in a different way from a fighter or Paladin, and even with lower AC because of their MASSIVE possible HP pool, they can out-survive the others without taking in account healing.
Also druids have a lot of spellcasting and other things that differentiate it from fighter, and even if the fighter goes EK, the druid will outclass them in casting, so I think them being a little worse at AC tanking is a fair trade off for increased HP and robust spells.
It is kinda similar to the spell slot difference of Wizards and Warlocks, cause Warlocks get a lot less but get them more often, while wizards get a lot more, but get them less often.

Dude, I was joking. Seriously, people are soloing this with druids. At a certain point, it might not be the class that's the problem.

It sounds like you're interested in a character who can do everything. Strong melee, strong spellcasting, add in some stealth.

No, I'm interested in a class with wild shapes that aren't basically a glorified decoy/Mirror Images. I don't want all my druid gameplay as a circle of the moon to be about using moonbeam and autoattacking something with my club, that's what Circle of the Land is supposed to do. Circle of the Moon should have its teeth put in the forms, not have them be totally outclassed by the humanoid form.

And every single class can solo. All it takes is you pulling up sin tee's youtube channel and there's not a single class he hasn't soloed with. The game is clearly very abusable with asinine combinations, but if you don't take advantage of those combinations and broken consumables, many aspects of the classes turn out to be fairly gimped/mediocre.


I don't care how they achieve it, either by nerfing fighters, buffing the other classes up, as long as this game's combat is properly rebalanced to be a rewarding experience for all classes involved instead of feeling like every class but fighter has to play like a rogue or ranger. I should feel excited to press Witch Bolt instead of "well, assuming it doesn't miss at 70% unless I always long rest in between fights to have misty step for every single skirmish, my Witch Bolt will do half of a Lazael melee swing, hurray". I shouldn't expect Shadowheart to be a worthless pile of garbage outside being a bless bot and praying the 65% Inflict Wound doesn't miss, because outside Inflict Wounds you do nothing except maybe heal for 5-9 HP when enemies strike for 9-25 damage (gotta love random ranged crits like the Spider Queen one shotting my 27 HP 19 AC druid from full with potion of poison resistance on).

Basically, make everything besides 2H githyankis feel good comparatively as well.

I don't wanna play a fighter. I just wanna be super tough at melee.

And not purposely obtuse arguing in bad faith, so I'm gonna pass on your posts as nothing more than petty forum troll bait going forward.

I'd say that depends on whether you play solo or party. With a party, the spider form is kind of ridiculous, because it can spam web every turn. Web can be set on fire and it ignites on contact (including on contact with ashes). So you can create and keep up a flaming battlefield of difficult terrain for the enemy to get through, while the rest of the party is plinking away with ranged attacks.