Sorry for my late response.
I responded after Raze posted and I thought that my response to his post was adequately sufficient to answer yours, but after a second thought I changed my mind lest you take it as if I ignored you, which is far from true. I apologise again.
What do you want?
That if you select a mage, enemies wouldn’t drop some money or charms or potions?
That’s pretty dull in my opinion.
Even a mage need money or items to buy spell books and armour!
Definitely with the current game design there is no way around accepting the acquisition of money for buying items by some means.
With a good story and consequently a good scenario, the quests can provide such items without the need for trade at all. As I said in my response to Raze, if the main choice was between a male or a female battle-mage only, then the global path is united to a divine path in which the hero seeks knowledge, experience and enchanted items. Looting the corpses of the hero’s dead enemies is an old game idea not a new one.
Dropping items is a very distracting thing in heavy combat and that is why I consider it a bad design point.
A very good source of new weapons is the weapon racks in the Orcish Camps (for example).
There you could pick up your choice and drop what you do not need to carry.
Having trade and gold as concepts within the game opens too many complications in design.
The hero could accumulate wealth by discovering treasures of ruby, emerald and amber at some point in the game to donate at a specific point in the story or to buy a house for example.
Potions should be made by the hero or found in barrels on camps etcetera.
So your point of (even a mage needs money to buy spell books) is answered if the mage could FIND spell books or scrolls that was in the possession of a slaughtered enemy-mage.
The fantastic trick in such a design is based on (stone/ scissors/ paper) concept.
You could always defeat any of the three by choosing the appropriate one and gain the knowledge left behind. Looting the library of a defeated mage is much more rewording and satisfactory than vacuum cleaning a pile of gold coins dropped by a rotten corps.
If you have high ethics, and want to play the game with a pure mind (which I can understand). Think of this: You don’t have to for fill
ALL the quest in the game. If you find out that the quest of the holy “items” means you have to burgle you way into someone’s house. Than
don’t. That’s very simple.
Just by arguing that the game offers you this possibility it’s a design fault?
I think You wanted the developers to eliminate this factor and prefix all the quest without doing something evil?
My opinion is that I like this game because you have to make choices! Like in the real life you can be a pure person, but you won’t get everything you wanted to have. But if you would “cheat” =stealing or being corrupt, you would probably get it too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />
The name of the game is Divine <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> not the great robbery.
The game is classified as a RPG while under its skin it is a dungeons and dragons role playing game.
The issue is not an issue of ethics as much as it is an issue of consistency.
The dignity of the hero is substantial and while dogs would fly after every thrown piece of bread a hero would only be moved to grab the most precious of all. Eating fish found on the floor of the sewers is so disgusting and unthinkable even if it was going to promote my intelligence with ten million points.
There must be a clear difference between Divine Divinity and Bad Mojo (a cockroach).
There are some discussions going about the “level” of randomisation of items.
Or that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> should have some fixt stats for some items (like the dragon armour)
But the holy sword isn’t the best item you will find in the game.
In the history of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> there were a lot of magical influences. So there would be more then 1 magical item. Enchanted items like we would say 
The sword of chaos is also one of these magical items. Why should the holy sword be the most powerful? In divinity you find about 5 very good swords with about the same statistics.(some times this vary)
The sword of the Gods is not available until the episode of the waste lands.
All other excellent swords are two handed swords (chaos and singing) with the exception of the Nobleman’s sword (one-handed) that you get by joining the Thieves Guild (forcedly) to acquire the dagger. This contradicts with applying the shield of the dragon, which is a beautiful piece of graphics and could be your best choice for fire resistance by design to protect you from dragon breath.
That is why the game design dose not leave you with so much choice as you imply.
Why is there no sword of the dragon item to complete the set?
This is
BAD design. Or in fact it was intentional to force you to join the thieves’ guild.
Is it more logically then to see your country ripped to pieces by chaos, and demons raged around the country side killing and destroying everything?
A man has to protect his “potential” goodies you know! No life = no money
Sometimes people have to have a vision. Maybe the “thief” (but I call him survivor <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> )
saw the purpose of his life and wanted to fight for that purpose.
Look it this way : lot’s of politicians want to help out the people and they are the biggest thief’s among us <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Hahahaha
Please remember that this RPG is based on a fantasy.
Aladdin was a thief that was forced to battle with evil Gaffer and he won the heart of the princess and a lot of treasures, but
THAT is another story and an excellent one in comparison.
Salahoddin treated the poisoned wounds of Richard the Lion’s heart in real history because he was a true Paladin.
I care not if the hero was a survivor or not as long as the character is consistent.
I was under the impression that the Orcish counsel member shall be not be Kroxy but Smiruk who befriended the hero for giving him Slasher. Smiruk could have been a wise Orc revel who thinks that the Orcish hordes are stupid to follow the black ring deeds and opposes them and that is why he was caught and imprisoned. Saving him would be a second favour that makes him eternally in dept to the hero.
A thief character would not give a valuable Slasher to a stranger Orc (very contradictory).
If it was Smiruk who gave the Slasher to the survivor hero then saving him as a return of favour would be more logical. The story is bad, bad, bad.
{5- If it was decided for the game to build the quality of the divine one from scratch, then the design strategy should have divided the game to several stages in which the main character begins with a specific weapon and armour set while seeking a specific better set to be able to advance to the higher stage while gaining experience. }
Soo , what part did I miss in the game?
The key word is
Specific.
No robbing is required.
The hero could be given a set to start with and through training and quests replaces his items gradually to improve his offence and defence to match his abilities.
The rarity of weapons and the diversity of types and qualities could be planned to maximize the satisfaction of acquiring such weapons and armours.
Having hundreds of items available depreciates the value of acquisition of such weapons and renders them useless and garbage that distracts the player from the game.
Wy would you get permanent strength by eating this stuff?
Because strength is in the muscles and muscles are protein and protein comes from (meat) food.
Is that clear now? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
The hero shall walk, run and fight eventually, but without food the hero gets sick and exhausted.
Health points are really related to water, salts, vitamins, carbohydrates and spice.
Health should reflect the available energy content of the bio-system.
That is why eating bread in this game gives a lot of health, which is a very good design point.
My objection is based on having experience points giving you the choice of increasing your vitality which is totally ridiculous. Food and activity automatically increases stamina which is the best measurement of health.
Killing a skeleton
is ridiculous <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
LOL.
I agree, but assuming that they wear magically animated, then de- animating them should be appropriately. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Why the larians chooses sword/dagger/amulet I don’t’ know. But I don’t dislike it…
As if you had any choice. LOL.
What I am saying is that the enchantress by acquiring great agility and dexterity could use a holy Bow.
Let one be called
The Dooms Harp and another be
The Elvin Bow of destruction.
Call another
The Wind Splitter and yet another the simple name
Zapper. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
With a damage base value in the range 50 to 100 and a maximum value of 150 to 200 you can wipe out armies with good war tactics.
Bronthion could give the hero one of them and Anarion could give one as a wedding present beside Hilfin that was given as a reword for saving Gavaranael’s daughter. Also the archers’ guild could have been activated for membership with two quests and offering a good bow for a start.
**
12- Many quests are unfounded and corrupt the story line.
**
No you can FIND all the quest you want. In the beginning there were some “questbreakers” quest you couldn’t finished if you made a mistake. But these were fixt in the patch. But corrupt the story line? I don’t think so.
What the hell does finding Shrimpo have to do with the story line?
The garden quest too is completely unrelated even though it is much better than finding Shrimpo.
Almost all of the side quests are silly fabrications to fill in the space left by the very bad story line.
I has that problem also in the beginning you find a key but didn’t know were it fits. At the end I had a bunch of keys.
But later I founded out that you have to find in the neighbour hood of the key. You will find a chest or some house with a keyhole.
I finished the game over 30 times and I know that quite well.
The issue again is not whether the key does have a lock or not but the clever relevance of its location.
The best key ever was the key dropped by the child outside the kitchen beside the archers’ guild.
That key was very relevant, perfectly informed and predicted.
Now other than that the key should have some hint to relate it to the door or chest it opens.
If it could be found on the body of a bandit you kill beside the bandits’ camp where you find a locked chest then it is acceptable. If you find it hidden in a tree with special graphics features beside a house with a locked door, then I would accept that. But finding a key under a rock to discover that it opens a chest guarded by spiders two miles away is more than ridiculous and meaningless.
Nice idea, some other people and I have some of the same ideas.
Like more guilds were you can evolve your character in.
Heck, you do have a guild that you could not even join, the archers’ guild.
The guild of the mages and the guild of the dwarf miners are very challenging to a very poor story line.
The lizards could have had a guild of time weavers in which you learn slow down and legs of lead as well as temporal storms.
17- The hero was forced to cheat his Elvin beloved by forging a copy of the amulet rather than finding the real one and the forged amulet does not look anything like the picture given!
Soo you married a blonde elf ?
Yes I did. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
I had to go to the dwarf jeweller to commission a copy of the amulet that she demanded as a gift of love.
18- The transportation pyramids are some kind of cure to the very bad story line because the hero is forced to occupy a house by force and use it as a store for stolen items and dropped money as well as a place to sleep to restore health and manna.
I don’t agree on the very bad story line
As I read your criticism, I didn’t find much weight to support your claims…
Of course you are very free to disagree that this very bad story line is a very bad story line.
Maybe we should call it an
extremely bad story line or an intolerable concoction of headache poison. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
What do you expect from me as a support to my claims!
How about you, doing the summarizing of the story line in the minimal number of words to disprove my claims?
Aleroth did have a mini-story which was not that bad, but after Aleroth the council of seven is a very bad fabrication and the black ring is a laugh. Those story
geometries were not assembled professionally in the story line at all.
Baby Janus drops a dragon stick and rides a magical sword guarded by a magical door that demands a password. Did the late duke take Janus with him and let him suffer the evil of the sword! Did baby Janus fabricate the correct password! Come on, how did Janus have access to the sword of lies?
From where did that black ring come? Did they find a chance all of a sudden to guide baby Janus to the sword to touch it and free its demon? Once Janus was possessed by the demon all evil deeds in the land follows. How was the healing source created by Ruben Ferule corrupted? Why didn’t the healers discover that the grey fever is a poison, even if they failed to connect it to Elrath? Are they dummies or healers?
I can go on and on and on, so what shall it be?
the story is very bad; period.
19- The cumbersome and unfounded travelling between cities, forests and towns is not a fabulous feature at all. From his home town to the farmlands to Verdisitis then to the black forest and finally to the mountains might have been a much better stage development in the game story.
When you going trough the lands of rivellon. Some parts of the land are mutch more difficult then others. So normaly you would end up in verdistis first and then visiting the dark forrest.
Giving you the choice to choose the inevitable is a very bad game design strategy and plain deception.
20- The Stormfist castle episode is the most humiliating and ridiculous task that could fall on a hero forcedly. That particular part of the story is the worst part of all.
this has you learned how powerfull you may be , your only human.
I didn’t like the dictating manners of that little brat janus also.. but it was a nice touch of the larians to make you hate the lord of chaos even more <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
It backfired and I almost hated Lar himself. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
LOL
My hero was powerful enough to kill all the castle guards when I entered the castle.
Why the hell can’t I escape!
Bad is bad and there is no justification for protecting bad design.
Yes I was angry too , especially with the dishwashing quest.
But then again , thinking we are god isn’t a good thing also isn’t?
Thinking!
How about reading the title of the game? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
The game is huge. To be perfect is impossible. There were ofcours a lot of things to consider. But that didn’t change the fact it was a Major achievement for the Larians to make a title that could stand besides the great RPG’s.
Now please remember that my OP was a bitter
PRAISE.
I love the game with all its negative points, but because I liked it so much it hurt me even more.
We always seek the perfection of whom we love.
That is why I invested time in playing and criticising this particular game.
It had great potential that was not properly exploited.
Even a greater achievement if you know the staff was not that big ! and the game didn’t get more devellop time from CDV
And with the proper feedback on the forum, the larians will l develop there next generation games to fine tune it to the fans.
But saying that the game designer is totally incompetent tsss….
I said that the story was a very poor story as a story line.
As for the game design, I never said that the game designer was totally incompetent but rather said that because of the bad story line many decisions on the game design had to compromise rather than excel.
I said that there is a huge space for game design improvement, not at the technical level but at the conceptual level to maximise the satisfaction of role playing.
I respect your criticism of my criticism and I hope to read more opinions whether that if for or against mine.
Kind regards.
