Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Adding the Grapple action and solving "barrelmancy"

So, as it stands, one of the main complaints of the folks who claim that the game is basically D:OS3 is how its combat system overuses surfaces and barrels that can spawn said surfaces. Whilst the first one was mostly resolved as of Patch 3 which turned cantrips back to their original ruleset shape, the barrels remain, and with them - the ability to carry them (and other containers) around in the characters' inventory to then pull them outta their pants for whenever you need a weapon of mass destruction with minimal effort involved.

While I personally strongly disagree with the Divinity comparison apart from BG3 using the same engine and therefore inheriting some of its quirks, it definitely is correct that the "stuff anything in your pockets no matter how big" thing really clashes with the setting and the ruleset. It was silly and matched with the Divinity setting that didn't try to simulate relative realism as far as characters' physical attributes and carrying capacity go, but in D&D folding a barrel and stuffing it into your backpack is stretching it a bit too much.

The suggestion I had in mind involves both making this particular area more "true"(tm) and "immersive"(tm) and simply making the game's ruleset closer to the PHb while still retaining the changes Larian wanted to introduce - it's the implementation of the Grapple mechanic and making it useable as a tool to carry around things that won't exactly fit in a character's inventory. It's already a missing combat option that adds to the tactical arsenal of martial classes who otherwise are really lacking in variety compared to spellcasters unless they are a subclass that comes with some interesting tricks and moves, and if it was used to carry around barrels and chests and such, it'd have an interesting "Larianese" twist on top of its usual function and introduce a decision into the much hated "barrelmancy" approach - sure, you can use barrels, but you'd have to carry them in your hands, limiting your mobility and stopping you from abusing them, thus making each barrel-heavy area more localized as a combat encounter instead of a trove of explosives to plunder and use in more difficult battles.

Of course, there are considerations of it being potentially tedious (then again, if someone really wants to abuse barrels, they'd do it no matter the irritations involved) and adding more animations and character states to a game that's already bursting at its seams in places. But that's what Early Access should be for, isn't it?

IMO, the carry weight limits prevent too much random barrelmancy. You can't realistically carry around more than 3/4 barrels when exploring for the first time. Sure, you can load up on barrels for a particular fight if you've already fought and lost it, but ... well, if you want to play a game with all fun removed, that's your choice.

Ability to "carry" large objects is easy to implement. And I think it's a pretty good solution. Right now barrelmancy feel more like an exploit then game feature.
Having "grapple" as a combat mechanic would be cool. But it's much easier in a make believe. Imagine amount of animations it requires. DnD has hundreads of creature types, and each combination will need its own animation set for initiating, holding, and breaking grapple.

Yes why not, this could be cool.

It's not really an issue because barrelmancy is not used by any of those that don't like it but I'm always in favor of more immersion in a game that break it everywhere.

I guess it also raises a question of how bags of holding are gonna work, then, and whether they are to be implemeted at all.

Not necessarily hundreds in BG3's case, given how it doesn't exactly span the entirety of the setting. If we're omitting anything non-humanoid, it shouldn't be that difficult to recycle animations across the same size categories. D:OS2 did have eight different animation sets for playable characters (one for each race and gender) each with their own set of clips for every weapon, skill type, and item usage, for instance, and Larian go out of their way to do wacky stuff like sitting poses for the druid's wild shapes. Plus, we already have ogres throwing crates in combat (albeit without much animation), so here's hoping they are not just a one-off neat detail but a hint at potential development in this area.

Personally, I don't use the barrel cheese. Sometimes I see the need to carry 1 or 2 locked chests to open them at camp, but I find it pretty ridiculous that they allow someone to pocket barrels to through them later. That cheese should be removed. I mean I don't mind if they leave barrels in the game for people that want to use them, but carrying them that is some crazy sh*t there.

Adding grapple mechanic would be fine, just like having dodge, ready, proper reactions and so on.
I have never seen a RPG with grapple mechanic.
Having to carry only one big item at a time and your hands are full then would be nice.

Not sure about earlier games but AC Valhalla lets you carry around one large object at a time, including explosive urns. Of course you can’t climb or jump while doing so. Would be great if BG3 worked like this.

Also, I would love to see grapple included. I’m not even too worried if the animation is a bit janky, just moving the models closer and having one acting restrained would be enough.

Yeah that's a much better idea!

Plus it just sounds cool... Grapple

Grappling! hehe

I agree that having barrels and other interactive objects in a combat environment can be fun, and would make way more sense done that way. Its really the ability to pick that stuff up and pack it away that puts the strain on.

I also agree that it would fit well with their gamestyle already using the Shove. Grappling is kind of the natural inverse of Shove

I can imagine a lot of ways it could show up in combat, and make melee more interesting for martial classes.

It would be funny to see someone grapple an enemy while being shoved and heroically launch off a cliff together lol

Maybe they could do something involving ropes too?

Or an equipment level special gloves, or claws, or also chains, maybe crossbars or hooking weapons that can build on the concept, allowing the player to still grapple without totally disarming. I can imagine it with flails or polearms as a kind of specialized attack move. Basically what they've done already with whip as a spell. But even without all that stuff, just as a regular grapple with the hands would be pretty fun I think.

Would be badass for the Monk thematically.

They could fix jank animations later, wonky limb tangles to be expected lol

Temple of Elemental Evil had grapple, and I think the most (if not all?) of the 3.5's combat actions. It also cleverly used shared initiative for making clusters of enemies act simultaneously. I'd say that the way they implemented combat may have lacked in environmental interactions, but, as far as action selection went, it adopted all it could. It was very tedious (owing to the game being 90% combat) and awful to control, unfortunately. If someone's UIs truly were nightmarish, it was Troika's (R.I.P.).

It's perfectly fine to carry ten short swords, five crossbows, six quarterstaffs, five sets of leather armor, a set a scale mail, two greatswords, and twelve goblin short bows, but picking up a barrel is a step too far?

On one hand, I get that some people think the barrels are "cheesy," but on the other hand I don't care.

Personally, I don't use the barrels. Not because I don't want to, but because I have this problem where I'm always trying to save them for the next big fight. So, I never get around to using them. Same with potions and scrolls and such. I'm trying to force myself to use this stuff more; otherwise, it all goes to waste.

Anyway. I find the barrels interesting, just like I find the terrain interesting. It makes the combat much more dynamic than the old: I run up and hit. I hit again. I hit again. Instead, the battlefield itself becomes much more important, much more alive.

I accept that some of you don't like the barrels. But trying to get them out of the game so I can't enjoy them is annoying.

I would like to see the AI use the barrels more efficiently. I once had an imp blow up a nautiloid tank to cause me damage. I thought that was great. I'd like to see more of that. Not necessarily in every battle location, but peppered throughout fights. Some of the enemies have to be smart enough to consider using these powerful explosives to their advantage.

Do you think Barrels is an unfair advantage, but suicide attack is Ok? LoL

I alread imagine people complain: "The low levels weak kobolts easy kill my half-orc with 20 strenght, 18 constituion in the first turn"

In my opinion, "barrelmance" is NOT an issue in single-player game. If the player want to cheese his adventure let him do it.

I always liked inventory Tetris, as long as there is auto sort like in modern Deus Exes.

You know. I was one of the people who was thinking that throwing barrels around and carrying them in your back pocket was stupid. I have to admit, though, the point about carrying around 10 axes, 8 suits of armor, 20 shortswords, etc. is a good one. You've changed my mind.

Honestly, I used to think, "Why doesn't anyone ever create a video game with realistic item/inventory management; every time you pick up something, it has to go somewhere on your person or you simply can't carry it?" Then I played Outbound and realized that a more realistic inventory/item system isn't as much fun as I thought it would be. Realism doesn't always equal fun.

For example, I've had my taste of BG3 Hidden Objects game; searching every room very carefully putting my mouse over every pixel of the screen because I'm afraid I'm going to miss something fun and cool. It's not as much fun as I thought it'd be. I'd like a Loot All Important Items in the Room button now please. Let my characters make rolls or something like I would in Tabletop D&D to see if they find any hidden, fun objects. Searching one barrel/crate at a time and searching every little vase is kinda anti-climactic and slows the game down. Sure, you can hide things amidst all those useless things, which provides treasure-hunt gaming for some players who enjoy that, but especially after you start playing through over and over again I find it is very boring and takes away from the fun of the game.

But that's not the point. The point is that it is true that this is a video game. If you want realism, taking away barrels from being carried isn't going to give you that. You'd have to limit how many items you carry period; like how many suits of armor you can slap into your magic pockets.

This said, Grapple would be cool to have.

Realism is SHIT most of times. Imagine your character crafting, building something, then he must stop for urinate or poo. Very, very funny (sarcasm). Or even better (worse), you must make a check or get depression, fail the check and you cannot do anything.

Hehe I have the same issue of hording and then never actually using consumables. Just always thinking to save them for a bigger fight, basically wasted on me. In BG2 I'd invariably get to the endgame with more potions than I knew what to do with. Same deal here with barrels or bulbs or whatever. That's why it might be nice to have a more localized grapple and toss for the big booms. I actually would like an in game justification for the heavy loads for all the random swords and goblin bows, like a pack animal. But yeah, at the end of the day the barrel thing isn't top of mind for me. I don't really care. I just think grapple would be a novel approach for stuff we are meant to use in the immediate combat area but not necessarily for the long haul to be packed away. Would be fun too see an actual bar fight with flipped tables and chairs. Brawlers or especially Monks doing crazy grappling moves seems like worth trying

Yes it is because the five sets of leather and ten short swords aren't weapons of mass destruction and generally follow the rules of real world physics. I can assume the loot is dropped to the ground when battle begins, but plopping down a huge barrel out of nowhere is stupid enough to lower the immersion level down to that of a cartoon.

That said, I'd be ok with the barrels being smaller 20lbs smokepowder kegs and much much more rare, since that stuff is magical in Forgotten Realms.

I haven't kept looking at the mod files, but can this be solved with weight limits?

I know that it looks like we can just turn the barrels off. No damage, no explosion, no ground effects.

But weight? I hadn't looked.

Dude, you couldn't even carry all that stuff from your front door to your car.

I will never understand you people, it´s not about you personally, but people in general.

There are people talking about playing with a BORING human being ONLY because the race receive a bonus that will maximaze damage. Then, by another hand, are against players that really use creativity during combat.


I think the same. The combat became much more interesting than MIN-MAX numbers alone.

I actually find this fetish for MIN-MAX numbers annoying to the core. Not that I hate math or something similar, it´s just annoying. I want more creativity during combat.