Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
Originally Posted by Zenith
Even in a dedicated warlock build, the famed master of solo's and uber-optimized gameplay, sin tee, doesn't even use a Tiefling. Surprise, it's yet another elf. Who knew, with the incredibly trove of advantages sunk into one race, that +2 stats to a relevant attribute would be hardly worth the trade. It's also why come lv4 most people are not even taking the extra 2 bonus attributes, but instead picking up wizard/warlock initiate or grabbing medium armor proficiency.
Part of the issue is the proliferation of spell scrolls and consumables + Larian's Homebrew. If shove only made the minotaur go prone, that fight would have been quite different.

Dex was already a potent stat in 5e and with Larian's homebrew it's even more valuable in Baldur's Gate 3.


Yup, I've suggested shoving only make a target prone.

Wouldn't change much, though. In sin tee's solo wizard (shield dwarf wizard) video he goes battlemage and with a 2H hammer since the Minotaurs are weak to bludgeoning damage, he consumes an oil of sharpness and potion of hill giant strength and proceeds to one shot the minotaur with a single swing.

Consumables in this game are hilariously busted.

Originally Posted by crashdaddy
Originally Posted by grysqrl
Originally Posted by Zenith
- We can go about how it should have been implemented according to your ideals of a table top game, but the fact is I'm more interested with how it's actually implemented in a videogame that actually takes resources to build and create cohesion with instead of just imagining things and writing them down to pen and paper.
It's a video game that's ostensibly based on a tabletop game that was designed with substantially more rigor and eye towards balance. This isn't about my ideals, it's about WotC having already done the work and Larian making a hash of it.


No, you're wrong here in your last statement. The very fact that you are arguing with Zenith who is saying they should prioritise this as a videogame first and foremost, should alert you to the fact that it's not just about slavishly recreating a game that reflects 5e's rules but also appealing to a market who quite frankly aren't that bothered by how accurately they are followed, as long as the game plays well.

What he's saying is undoubtable true too. If you want to optimise your character, certain race/class combinations are clearly better than others. The only real answer to this is you don't have to optimise your character. Tasha's changed this but who knows if they'll add this. He points out the elf and dwarf but in fact for the vast majority of classes that will be introduced the half elf is the obvious go to race for getting the best character.

People seem to think 5e is this perfectly balanced system while forgetting that it is the dm's application of this system that actually balances it. A dm who applies the encounters he uses for a party of intelligent, rules savvy powergamers to a bunch of unoptimized clueless rp'ers will soon find balance issues. Laraian is the dm as well as the developer. And has to make a game that appeals to a massive swathe of people. A lot of whom will want to spend a minimal amount of time learning the intricacies of 5e. And also keep their Larianisms, because believe it or not, they do have actual fans of these. A certain amount of people will expect the cheese in the game and be disappointed if it's not there.

There was even talk about adding a lone wolf mode ffs! smile

Keeping everybody happy is a lose/lose situation. It can't work, compromises have to be made to appeal to the biggest market possible. I have two big gamer friends one of whom says he'll play BG3 on release. I asked both of them if they would play an rpg where it's baked into the system that even the most optimised character will miss 33% of the time on average. Both said Hell No.


These people don't care about the market or the game being widely successful and profitable for the company so it gains enough profits to reliably grow. They care about a 3D rendering of their pen and paper game, however much it alienates a large swath of gamers.

And the fact they're even acknowledging all these obnoxious aspects will get modded out, so the game should be left as is happens to tell you everything you need to know.

Last edited by Zenith; 15/03/21 10:55 PM.