Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General 4 Redcaps = lvl 9 Encounter

I beat that fight legit, just have to keep distance and use choke points with spellcasters and surface effects. Easy shit but most newbies wouldn't find it easy so a lot of ppl use cheese. I can't see a newbie beating Minotaurs legit ever for example because of how stupidly lazy Larian Overscaling is. Most ppl wouldn't bother doing it legit either because they would feel like they are just wasting their time. Every single fight in this game can be trivialized through Larian Homebrew so nothing is actually hard. Of course complaining is valid for ppl that have never played a single Larian Game in their entire life and think the game seems harder than what it actually is.

Ex: Try hoarding a million scrolls of magic missiles and use The Sapphire Spark

5e DnD

Grease spell does not create a flammable surface https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Grease#content

Height doesn't give automatic advantage, especially when shooting into melee combat is supposed to provide your target with +2 half-cover AC if something is in your line of sight https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Combat#toc_36

Alchemist fire targets one creature or object, and doesn't create a 10 foot AoE of fire https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Alchemist's%20Fire#content

Non-rogues don't get sneak attack https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Rogue#toc_5

Non-magic-related character classes can't use scrolls at all, and magic users can only use scrolls that pertain to their school of magic, except rogues with "use magical device" https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Spell%20Scroll#content

Drinking a potion is an action not a bonus action https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Combat#toc_30

Sure, that battle is easy if you use the cheese that Larian has fully baked into BG3. I think you are new to DnD and don't understand the concept that the rule structure exists for a reason.

At what point does Larian substitute so many rule changes that you can no longer really say that BG3 uses 5th edition rules?

p.s. While drinking a potion is RAW an action, most games I've been in have home-brewed it to be a bonus action. Also, non-rogues don't get sneak attack in BG3, so that matches 5e rules.

You are aware that most lubricating oils even those derived from petroleum, are combustible, but not volatile, right?

Core Larian Mechanics: Height is King, Surface is Queen

I didn't even know that the redcaps difficulty was a thing ..?!

These guys just happened to be in my killing path while doing the run.

What do you have to do to make them "challenging" ?

it's not hard for people that understand that this game is basically Larian's homebrew version of 5th edition mashed on top of DOS surface/barrelmancy, but for people who are expecting the game to even have a loose adhesion to the actual rule system, I could see how the encounter would be challenging.

No I wasn't, but that doesn't really change my response. The grease spell doesn't specify that it can't be set on fire; thus my wizard has based his Grease Spell off of one of those lubricating oils, even those derived from petroleum, that are volatile.

Plus, unless you ignite grease on the same turn that you cast it, it's unlikely that any enemies will still be in it as any creature with a speed of >=20 ft can freely walk out on their turn. It won't result in overpowered play, so why not let players do it?

It's a level 1 spell, and the fact that it doesn't say that it can be set on fire, tells you that it can't be according to the rules. Otherwise you have a level 1 spell that is far more powerful that its casting level.

I've beaten it a few times without cheese, I did not find the fight to be too difficult when avoiding certain larianisms. Shadowheart does enough healing and Gale and my main character warlock handle magic, and Astarion is a great damage source.

That being said, yeah, they are not a uh fair fight.

How exactly are you playing Astarion effectively without using jump/disengage, hide at will, backstab-spam, height-advantage-roll?

Eh, Arcane Trickster in the face of enemies when I feel like it. Despite low Int, many of the spells he can get are quite useful and enable some strategies.

He usually goes down at least once anytime I fight redcaps, not die, just unconscious so Shadowheart just raises him so he keeps fighting.

I mean, it's not really too powerful? As I said, anyone with a speed of 20-ft can get out of it on their turn. So you'd have to cast grease and make it flammable before the enemy gets their turn, which costs 2 actions. 2 actions for grease + idk what, 1d6 fire in a 10-ft square? Dex ST to negate the fire? Plus I'd probably rule that the grease burns up in 1-2 turns instead of lasting for a minute, so it's really not that powerful. It'd be ~equally as effective to just firebolt the enemy if they didn't fall prone or just attack them with advantage if they did.

Edit: I acknowledge that Jeremy Crawford says grease can't be lit on fire, but to that I refer you to my above image

In my last playthrough I just struggled with 2 since one of the melee bugged out and got stuck on plotting next move forever, and the sage never came to Ethel's house and went to chill on the swamp.

They are very easily cheesed with burst damage, though, you can heat weapon with druid on one of the melees and frightening strike with Lazael the other one and cast Hold with Shadowheart on the third and just burn down one by one.

So you have your gimpy cleric who never lands any of her spell toss the torch out first, and then cast grease on it for an instant fireball, or better yet cast with a torch or even a lowly candle in the area and watch them for up in flames.

Regardless if your preferences, it's 100% not in the actual spell that it's combustible for additional damage, unlike the web spell where it is called out that the webs are flammable, but even they shouldn't all be burned away in a single round

Encounters like this are obviously designed with the idea that the party can just load the game if they lose. No GM would ever create an encounter like that for a level 4 party

His point is that for a level 1 spell, a 10ft flame surface that does 1d6 per round (on a highly escapable surface, DEX ST for to negate after the initial round, isn't by any means game-breaking for the cost of a level 1 spell slot. Considering that Burning Hands is a 15 ft cone for 3d6 DEX ST for half. I assume calling it a 8d6 DEX ST save-for-half fireball is strictly hyperbole.

All this means is Larian is deviating from 5e core rules - which we all know already.

Would it make you feel better if I'd referred to is at 'fireball-lite''? It doesn't change the fact that the change takes what is supposed to be a spell that impacts mobility, and turns it into an attack spell. When combined with the broken sneak mechanic, you can cast grease in a surprise round from 60 feet out, and immediately cast firebolt easy as an opening salvo at level 1. There's no comparison to burning hands which at least requires you to somewhat risk being close to melee combat to offset the damage it does.

I think there is a slight misunderstanding here. I am in NO WAY arguing for Larian to implement this. No more BG3 surfaces than there already are. Honestly, I don't know anything about BG3's implementation of grease...I assume it catches fire and explodes, knocking people prone, dealing instant fire damage, and then catching them on fire?

I'm arguing for grease catching fire in tabletop. Or, at least, saying I'd rule that my games. In tabletop, given that most DMs would prevent a "broken sneak attack mechanic," its effectiveness is way lessened. If it catches fire (not explodes) and deals a small amount of damage (e.g., Dex ST for 1d6 fire damage) to people, then I don't think that's overpowered.
In your example where a torch is placed down first, then the grease immediately catches fire and would not make enemies fall prone. Basically it turns Grease into a ranged Burning Hands with ~1/3 the effectiveness and a smaller area, which I'd argue is a very poor use of a 1st level spell slot. Magic missile would do more damage.

it does not per the both the description of the spell, which says nothing about it catching fire, and per the direct quote of the creator of 5E rules, who also said no, it does not catch fire.

What you do in your home game is on you, what Larian has done by making it catch fire in BG, is just another example of their meddling with the rules, completely changing the utility of the spell.

Again, there is no comparison to burning hands, burning hands requires your wizard to close to within 15 feet to cast the spell, that's the tradeoff, you have to get close to combat. Flammable grease can be cast from 60 feet onto a fire source itself to catch fire or can have a simple candle thrown on it to ignite it, and creates a burning surface that enemies now how to avoid or take damage.

It's utility goes far beyond the simple damage of magic missile.