Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Larian's gimmicks are like an invasive species to an ecosystem

That's generally the case in tabletop. Moon druids are the shape shifters and land druids are casters. Now whether or not wild shape is good in BG3 seems to be the fault of Larian as they reduced/changed certain features, like your example of not being able to move Moonbeam while shifted. Bears not having multiattack is another.

I said, after the last panel from hell that Larian should go all DOS or 5e. I still stand by it. It's why I won't argue your suggestions as you are suggesting BG3 be more like DOS. I say go all in then. It's this bizarre hybrid that's upsetting both sides of the camp. I won't like BG3 being more like DOS but at least I'll know what I am getting. This wishy washy thing Larian is doing is very frustrating.

Yeah, this is something I want an indication on a clear direction for as well. I would prefer something closer to 5E by sheer principle as this *is* one of the very few turn-based DnD-licensed games because most of the more modern ones are action hybrids or full blown action for whatever reason, but going more towards DOS would at least balance itself out to be an enjoyable experience in other ways for the long term. This middle ground approach is outright failing at this point, and it's just leading to both sides picking things apart and wondering why certain things aren't behaving as they should. It's quite stifling to each other.

I'll also say that Lunar Mend is a complete trap. 1d8 per spell rank is so hideously weak and a total scam considering because of animal forms' low AC, they in general take way more damage than the humanoid forms, so it's horrendously spell slot inefficient to use Lunar mend at all. Why would you ever use Lunar Mend over Cure Wounds which does 1d8+3 instead of 1d8 (or 2d8+3 instead of Lunar mend rank 2) for the same spell slot, on a humanoid druid with 19-21 AC or 30 AC with mirror images who is much more likely to gain from that HP recovery efficiently, and it can be used on allies to boot if necessary.

Animal forms feel so hideously undertuned, it's not even funny. And they don't even make Moon Druid a tankier version than Land druid (the supposed caster equivalent who's supposed to be squishier) because Land Druids with Coast alignment gain Mirror Images as a spell, which is a whoopping 9-6-3 AC benefit on top of their native humanoid 19-21 AC while moon druids do not. It's a real pity, because forms were supposed to be a major defining feature of the class, yet druid regardless of current Circle plays just as a moon beam bot with 1h+shield as Shilleilagh gives more damage on 1h club swing than Polar Bear gives in its own attacks. All while having access to Healing Word with Hellrider's Pride to give people a heal on bonus action that also applies bladeward to them.

And that's using regular forms. The Mindeater form from the tadpole power is by far the worst, just 3 more HP than wolf, its spells have abysmal hit rates, and it's not like it does meaningful damage to compensate for its relative squishiness and being a power that is only single use restored on long rest.

What's worse, Aberrant Shape does not obey the moon druid rule giving shapeshifting as a bonus action, so you waste an entire turn shifting into it as a full action with a measly 21 HP pool that often doesn't survide the next enemy turns before you actually get to use an action yourself in form.

I don't know all the details since I don't play druids but is it because Lunar Mend you can cast while in Wild Shape and only takes a bonus action instead of a full action?

It's still got the same limiting reagent which is the spell slot. Whether it uses a full action or not is irrelevant because while it is a bonus action, it's restricted to a form that takes more damage in by default, making the healing efficiency a lot worse. It's a LOT less bang for your precious limited spell slots, especially as a Moon Druid where you have less spell slots than Land druid to begin with.

Well you can say it doesn't work for you but it's a spell for a certain situation. Perhaps you only have a bonus action left and you need to heal? Perhaps you don't want to change back? It may not be ideal but it provides a chance to heal, which may not be ideal but healing nonetheless.

Healing Word and Cure Wounds are also dependent upon the current situation.

There's never a situation with current animal form tuning where the HP of your humanoid form or your allies is less valuable than the HP of your animal form. If you're left with a spare bonus action, you use it to push or jump for easier positioning for backstab anyways. It's like saying Sacred Flame has a situation if you refuse to use the abundantly superior option on Shadowheart of a crossbow+1, that hits more reliably, does more damage, and can be amplified with fire dipping or poison coating. Sure, you can use it if you're fond of using vastly suboptimal options, but it doesn't mean it's horribly balanced and should be addressed, because the fact is a cleric relying on a crossbow for their damage instead of their class defining cantrip is just stupid.

Perhaps but like you said, currently. Maybe future animal forms will be more valuable. I am not stating Lunar Mend is a good heal at this moment. I am just stating it serves a different purpose in a different situation.

And I really think a lot of your opinion of attacks and damage is skewed due to the mixing of Larian mechanics and 5e. You're right, in it's current state, it's a mess. No question. But you are analyzing Larian systems within 5e systems and concluding 5e is bad. 5e is bad if it gets mixed with Larian homebrew.

Sacred Flame and light crossbows do the same damage, albeit crossbows can also benefit from modifier bonuses. But Sacred Flame is unlimited and at level 5 bumps to 2d8 damage while crossbow stays the same. In standard 5e rules, crossbows ultimately become inferior to cantrips other than for martial classes. You are then conflating Larian rules of dipping, backstab, height advantage which yes, makes certain attacks much weaker. That's what many here are complaining about.

You want to toss out 5e because you don't see it being very balanced in BG3. I am asking you critique 5e on it's own merits and you'll find it's fairly well balanced. The balance is off not because of 5e. It's off because we have a hybrid.

I've used shapeshifting plenty as a land druid. The spider can cast web as an ability, so it doesn't require concentration and therefore works great in combination with druidic aoe spells that do. Shapeshift being a full action meant my druid could shift & cast web as bonus action in the same turn. The other form I've used was the rothe, on the occassions where the party found themselves suddenly in melee (e. g. arcanist tower, I chose the wrong conversation option by mistake). The other two shapes weren't that useful, though. So I'd like for the land druid to get more spellcasting forms. But it worked for me as it is.

Though the moon's raven is for mobility than misty step, since it uses up very little movement points when flying. I think there might be a bug involved, since sometimes it didn't use any, same as the raven familiar.

I use Lazael and Shadoheart in my party, so casting Web is highly counterproductive, as it hinders allies as well as enemies, and Lazael is the most powerful class in the game while a Shadowheart Inflict Wounds Rank 2 crit can hit as high as 50+ damage. Both require melee range to do so. And I want them hitting the target with moonbeam on top because moonbeam illuminates the target and thus makes landing their attacks on it much easier.

I don't like using moonbeam next to melee characters, because when I've tried it, both companions and enemies seemed to ignore that the aoe can damage them, and tried to run through it. So I had to manually steer them around. Spike growth has the same issue, and can easily kill neutral npcs that just continue walking through it, which is very annoying.

I gave Lae'zel the spider shoes from the cave, but I'll admit I haven't actually paid attention if it made her immune to conjured webs, or if she just made the saves.

Another thing...5e decidedly moved away from save or die mechanics.

Now with Larian's homebrew action economy and big focus on highly vertical maps save or die is back in a huge way.

You can actually do a save or die attack TWICE per turn on a level 1 Druid or Wizard with Thunderwave and a bonus Shove. Not all fall damage is lethal immediately but enemies tend to die trying to climb back to you or just lose because of the massive advantage/disadvantage swing after falling.

With such heavy focus on vertical maps, the shoving should not have been buffed. But they did, both distance and action wise. And created knockback arrows so you can even shove from range, and of course random goblins have these arrows too. Shoving probably should have been nerfed slightly from 5e because of all the insta kill falls everywhere and enemies that are not smart enough to position themselves to avoid that. It's even more frustrating to have your party members insta killed by a random push effect. And finding them in camp after seemingly been lost forever doesn't help create a credible foundation for storytelling in Faerun.

I feel this so much.

Not that this takes away from the rest of your point, but save or die hasn't been a thing since 3rd edition.

I agree with the OP thread. I also have something to add, in general.
There are bugs. That's to be expected, and I'm realistic about the time it takes to roll a game out.
What I have a MAJOR problem with is the inside jokes and personal stories that this game is ABSOLUTELY POLLUTED WITH. I want to feel like I'm playing a fantasy RPG, not intruding on peoples' personal lives and memoirs. For example, there's a book you find often in the game called A Pleasurable Deal that talks about someone named Robert and how his wife/girlfriend cheated on him with one of his friends. That's f!@#king gross and I don't want that in my game. I'm sure "Robert" doesn't, either. There's another letter you'll find in the burned-out town of Waukeen's Rest on one of the guards that talks about a girl finding one of her boyfriends snot rags that he left on the table and how she wants to break up with him but he occasionally says some funny things so she keeps him around. And tons of things about playwriting, a dwarf named "Brian", etc., etc. This whole game so far has felt like I'm in the middle of someone's selfie. Clean this crap up and act like professionals who are selling a product to the general public, not making a memory book or forcing people to watch your Hawaiian vacation slideshow.

Um, I never assumed these were real people. I just think that in fiction you use real names sometimes. Makes it have more verisimilitude.

Precisely!! =)

I so want them to implement more 5e rules. I hope they do. This game was marketed as a true authentic D&D video game; the first of its kind to actually mirror D&D the way it was meant to be played. I thought it would be more true to the rules to provide D&D fans with a true tabletop brought to PC experience.

This said, it does do this to a certain degree, but not completely. I get that certain things must be tweaked to put into a PC game. Wild Shape can't just be any form at all, so they have to make it limited to certain select forms. Fine. That's understandable.

Eating a cheese wheel as a bonus actions to gain a bunch of hit points back makes no sense.

This said, I did just read an interview where Swen was talking about the game. They are working on these things and listening to feedback. There is just a LOT to sift through. Some things are the way they are to see how they actually work on the game. They may be changed when difficulty settings get implemented later, etc.

He also said the Druid class was one of the hardest to implement and balance. Gaining back full health whenever you change form is powerful. Balancing animal abilities within the game was also very hard. Sounded like they were still not sure about some of these things and how they will actually work.

So, it seemed to me that they plan on having more authentic D&D rules for difficulty setting and maybe some not so D&D rules difficulty setting for those who need a more easy gameplay that is more like what we have now with eating food to heal during combat as a bonus actions, etc.

In my first playthrough I didn't eat the magic food. It didn't even occur to me to try because eating cheese wheels while fighting or food instantly healing your wounds makes absolutely no sense. D&D has healing potions and spells for that which are magical and do make sense, and BG3 has those.

Now I'm snacking all the time because I can. And it slows down combat when I'm searching my inventories to make use for that remaining bonus action.

Combat was more tactical when getting hurt wasn't just a minor inconvenience you could fix by eating a pigs head as a bonus action. It's mechanically the same as showering the player with unlimited healing potions. So why is this feature even in the game? Why don't intelligent enemies carry sacks of apples with them and snack one every time after attacking?

Lol. Same. My first playthrough was much harder because I was saving food for camp. I picked up EVERYTHING, thinking I needed it to survive.

Now I sell potions. Worth more money and totally useless because cheap food well do the same thing. If they don't change this, I will be quite disappointed. At least give me some Authentic difficulty mode so I can play D&D based on strict D&D Core rules and if other players don't like Authentic Mode they can put it on Eat Rack Of Ribs as a Bonus Action and Toss Barrels Full of Water 30 ft Mode.