Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Am I the only one finding this spell/combat system awful in comparison to Divinity 2?

I think that most of the problems people who don't really know D&D are having with this game have to do with the fact that all characters are starting at Level 1. Level 1 D&D characters are babies. They are weaklings with very limited abilities. When you are used to playing other video games where spellcasters are endlessly spamming spells, a Level 1 mage in D&D will seem like they can't do a God Blessed thing.

D&D has always been about balancing classes. The mage class isn't supposed to be an Emperor Palpatine Unlimited Power Blasting Everyone With Force Lightning Constantly class. You aren't supposed to go around hurling spells everywhere all the time. That's overpowered. Honestly, if they were going to do that, they'd have to REALLY dumb down the mage's spells' effectiveness. Fire Bolt, for example, would have to do like 1d4 points of damage or something. Magic Missiles would need to do like 1 HP of damage since they can hit every time, or they'd have to make it so Magic Missiles don't just hit every time, which is one of the most important benefits of Magic Missiles.

I don't get why so many people say that D&D doesn't work with video games/ CRPGs. It is no different for tabletop as it is for CRPGs. Whether I have limited Spell Slots in Tabletop or CRPG, the concept is the same. The point of the Spell Slot limitations is to make sure the mage isn't some all powerful, overpowering member of the team. You save your spells and use them strategically and wisely. It's about strategy, not spamming spells. That's the point. Think of Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings. He didn't go around blasting everything all the time with magic. A lot of times he fought with sword and staff. He saved his spells for when he really needed to use them.

As it is, in all other versions of D&D, Cantrips were also given limited spell slots. In 5e, they finally made Cantrips so that mage's could just use them endlessly. I like this. It does allow mages to at least use some sort of spells regularly, even if they are weaker. I also think it works well that as they increase levels their Cantrips become more powerful because their Savings Throw DC and Spell Proficiency increases. So the higher the level the mage, the more difficult it will be for enemies to make Savings Throws against the mage's Spell Difficulty Check and the easier it will be for the mage to hit with their Cantrips.

Mages have always been weaklings in the beginning levels. This is what a lot of people are missing. Those who don't play D&D tend to expect that their characters are supposed to begin the game as experts in their crafts. They aren't. At Level 1, you are a baby weakling barely better than the average grunt off the streets. Then, as you increase in level, you become more and more powerful in the game. The mage WILL become an OP member of the party as he/she gets to higher levels. In BG1 and 2, I played as a sorcerer. In the beginning, I had to protect him with everything I had all the time. By the end of BG2, my sorcerer was the most powerful member of my team. Nothing could kill him. Time Stop, Chaining 6 spells at one time using Spell Sequencer and such, I could wipe out untold numbers of enemies in just a round or two. It just takes time and lots of levels before you get to that place.

So keep in mind, D&D is about your character growing, and you seeing how different your character is from start to finish. It is about the journey from baby apprentice to master arcanist; from petty thief to skilled assassin or grunt soldier to champion warlord. If they don't limit your mage and such at Level 1 like they do, the whole point of this character growth and development is completely lost.

Restrictions on long rests are among the most important things required for BG3. High level spellcasters resting after every encounter will lead to an even bigger balance problem that doesn't have good solutions. Even if the classes would somehow be balanced with unlimited long rests, it wouldn't deal with the fact that resting after every encounter is just an incredibly tedious mechanic.

Easiest way to discourage carefree long rest spam would be to put a gold price tag on them. Camping supplies. Then the game would reward you in gold for playing well and using your resources with care.

I'd also like to see local resting spots and a redesigned fast travel system with waypoints to reach those places quickly if you have to backtrack. (The silly teleportation runes should be turned into waypoints for mundane fast travel by foot anyway. Some of them are literally 30 seconds apart by foot, who needs a magical teleport? And why do they only exist for the player characters?) This is mostly for immersion so that the world makes more sense and feels more real. But I'd also like to play with non-safe camps with chances for random encounters on higher difficulties. A Fatigue system that would account for distance traveled could easily stop you from always going all the way back to a safe camp. You'd just be fatigued again when you come back to where you were. Put a stop to the silly the back and forth between the camp and the Underdark.

Important feedback. DOS2 fans think the system they liked has been downgraded and 5e fans think that Larian has a cheesy interpretation of the rules. The devs haven't produced hybrid vigor they have made something that pleases neither side.

It's a like a child's first experiment with cooking -- I like hotdogs, ketchup and ice cream what will happen when I mash them all together in a bowl?

The devs need to follow Solasta's lead and implement a menu of rules players can turn on and off and do it soon rather than later.

All I can say to you KillerRabbit is AMEN!

Well said! At first I had fun with Larian's combat system. But using the same "jump behind = win & jump to high ground = win" tactics gets boring real fast. That's not strategy, it's cheese. Now I can still make a character that jumps into the middle of mobs and hack away; to make use of these mechanics, without the cheese, and have a fun challenge. But I don't always want to play that type of character.

True, it is not BG1&2 bad nowadays, but I think the problem exists. How big of a problem it is will depend on a player - I am a hoarder type, ending games with hundered of consumables as I would avoid using them, in case I need them later. I can wizard a main, and not use a spell unless I really really have to. Others will use up all their spells and abuse the rest.

Where the problem arises is that devs have no way of encouraging fun playstyle. How do you stop rest-spammers from overpowering encounters by overspending spells? How do you encourage hoarders like myself not to restrict themselves to repetitive, cost efficient playstyles?

That why I usually quote PoE1 as best implimentation of the system - tanks endurance game a pretty clear indication of when we will have to be resting - therefore I could gauge how long I have till rest and use spell appropriatly. Limitation to 2 camping supplies allowed devs to pace dungeons, meaning if you are rest-spammer, doing so will make game too tedious to indulge in that playstyle. Still, it's more of patching dodgy BG1&2 design, then creating a good gameplay loop.

It's odd to have a resource management element, without it actually being a resource management. We can get those resources anywhere at any time. Try to artificially restrict it and we run into another problem - how can we resource manage, if we don't know what ahead us? How can devs design fair encounters if they have no way of knowing how many and what resources we have? The latter leads to either BG1&2/PoE1 were majority of encounters are greatly undertuned, or Kingmaker where metaknowladge is king. Though, techincally, I think BG1&2/PoE1 suffer more from too much optional content (meaning you start overleveling everything if you are thorough). PoE2 moved to per-encounter casting, but it's super felxible open world structre made everything past initial couple hours a cake-walk.

well as far as resting goes I always avoid long resting for as long as I physically can, and even at low levels wizards are super powerful a well placed fog or guarantee to hit an enemy with a magic missile can win you a fight.

At least that is how it should be and is in actual DnD, but larian decided to try to make the game a weird hybrid between DOS:2 and DnD so every encounter gets beaten easily by high ground and backstab spam and now no one is happy.