Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Mega-threads and Guides BG3 Party Movement Mechanic

If I remember correctly, Larian at some point flippantly stated that it's only the "vocal minority" that complain about the movement mechanics. But it's just their way of trying to sweep the problem under the rug of course. It's what companies do when they feel offended or "attacked" by certian criticism that they can't understand or doesn't agree with.

Lots and lots of complaints and annoyance has been directed towards the worthless movement mechanits, both here and on other forums and amongst Youtubers. And even the people that doesnt go to the forums or post videos about it tend to agree that, yeah the movement mechanics is in need of improvements, when you talk to them about it.
So even if it's true that it's only a "vocal minority" of the testers that actually take their time to provide negative feedback about the movement mechanics, I dare say that a majorty of the testers still would love to see the movement mechanics improved. Ok, maybe not just improved. But rather reworked or completely redesigned.

A large portion of the user base of any reasonably successful game simply doesn't have the experience, the familiarity and sometime even the "gaming literacy" to clearly identify what's wrong with what they are playing. What mechanics exactly work, what don't, why and to what extent.
For the most part they just feel on an intuitive level that something may be wrong.

Still, most of of them, especially when familiar with other similar titles in the genre, even if not spontaneously vocal about it, when pointed by a third party why a certain thing doesn't work, why it should be improved, etc, will be able to decide if they can agree or not.
In other words they may not know what they want, but they can recognize what they like/dislike when presented to them.

The overwhelming majority of people I crossed in the past year may not even conceive the idea to voice complaints specifically aimed at the game's current control system, but when put in front of the discussion and forced to think about the pros and cons, the dislike for the Larian solution has always been almost unanimous.
In the rare cases where I've spotted the occasional exception it was always people who sounded suspiciously invested in defending whatever Larian was doing "Just because", rather than genuine fondness for the system.
You know, the same guys who will tell you "It seems fine enough to me" over and over, just to correct their aim in "Yeah, thank god is gone, it was very bad" IF the developers decide to change it later.

Psychological profiling for the fringe cases aside, the stats don't really leave that much room for doubts about the level of appreciation the current system inspires: it's genuine trash tier.

What surprises me the most, though, are the devs themselves: can we actually believe that no one at Larian in the last 8-9 years of development for DOS 1, DOS 2 and DOS BG 3 ever had this wild, novel epiphany "What if we released a game where controls aren't actively detrimental to the player's enjoyment, for once?".

I'd prefer another movement system, but if the current one stays I can see two simple changes to make it more bareable.

1. Add a Chain/Unchain hotkey.
2. Don't have party members flock to you when you select a character or end a combat. Instead, have them stay still until you move.

These two changes would at least lessen what I see as the two most glaring issues with the current system - that it's slow and cumbersome to unchain each character separately, and that everyone runs around like headless chickens and reposition themselves when you're not ready.

Amen.

Agree on both count. Nothing really new, but this is a good summary of how to salvage the mess we have now to a decent extent and with limited effort.

Of course, I would STILL prefer to see the system replaced with a competent one, but you know, baby steps... and all that jazz.

And don't run into traps you spotted but run around them.

Also, in Patch 5, if they can't make jumps, they shouldn't move and should notify you that they can't make the jump. Several times now some have just vanished because they couldn't jump or something. One time, Astarion ran around another way and triggered a fight.

OK. And now, to add to this, they need to stop making it so that when I'm in a dialogue my party members keep moving. Wyll ran through a poison cloud while talking to the Hag's corpse and died during one fight, and during the Harpy cutscene my Drow fighter wandered right up to the closest harpy and was in range of death while being totally charmed by the dumb thing. If a dialogue or combat has been initiated, the other characters need to be drawn into it as well. We can't be having all this nonsense of letting all the other characters roam around and do whatever they want, steal everything under the sun, etc. while another player is in conversation with an NPC and so forth. If you want to steal with the help of another player, that's allowing Advantage on a Pickpocket check because one is distracting while another is pickpocketing, or whatever. Same with Stealth. There needs to be a Help mechanic that allows characters to help one another in their rolls and such without allowing them to just roam about freely like they do, or something. The fact that there is too much freedom creates issues like what I've been encountering lately with my party members roaming into stupid stuff while I'm in a cutscene.

Besides, I REALLY want Larian to make it so that I can switch between characters while in dialogues. For crying out loud, especially in situations where I have 3 or 4 custom characters, I trigger a dialogue with my character who is good at Intimidation, but for some reason the dialogue pulls in the Host of the session instead and thus he isn't able to use Intimidation as well and fails where my other character how has Intimidate and special abilities to even enhance it further, would have likely succeeded. It's very frustrating. If I'm trying to deceive Gimblebock, and I'm forced to bring in my honest cleric instead of my super Deceptive Rogue, that's an issue for me, and it needs to be possible for EVERY dialogue. When I get to Acts 2 and 3 and I have no idea what's coming, I'm not going to think to switch to my Deceptive rogue when I need to lie to someone. I'm likely going to have my typical Main out there who can't lie worth spit. Likewise, if I have my rogue out, and I run into a situation that requires more persuasion, I need my Cleric out there because he's proficient.

Just a heads up but this exists (as a chain/unchain all) as "Toggle Group Mode" in keybindings.

Jesus Christ, when did they add this?
Fairly sure it wasn't there the last time I checked.
And why is it unbound by default, anyway? They should have neon signs pointing to its existence.

Just goes to show that actually SPEAKING from time to time could go a long way in solving some issues.

Well, not that this solves everything, but damn if it doesn't make a small, meaningful difference.

100% AGREE!

I did not know about this too, just being told this would have saved me a world of headache...

Wait, they finally did something about this?!

I'm not sure I'd have realized what "Toggle Group Mode" meant even if I saw it listed. Is this new to patch 5? If so it should have been like the first they mentioned in their new news announcements, cause then I would have downloaded the patch immediately instead of waiting until right now.

This needs a default bind like CTRL+A or something obvious.

They should really highlight this in the Tutorial, like as soon as the Imp first imp combat concludes in the prologue. If they have a simple default bind to Group All, then the game should automatically Ungroup All once combat concludes, to prevent the characters from ambling around or falling all over each other precisely at the point when you'd really want everyone to just freeze and wait until they are issued a command to follow the leader again. It would be hugely helpful, and reduce my main annoyance with this game since like day one.

I immediately bounded it to BACKSPACE, since the game has no default binding for that key and it's easy and quick to reach.

P.S. Don't get your hopes TOO high. It isn't really a "group all" button. It chains/unchains all characters in a singe button press, but you still get direct control only of one character at any given time no matter what (with the others in autofollow) and if you want, say, put everyone in and out of stealth, you'll still have to rotate between individual selections and do it manually for each character.

Still, a godsend as far as QoL improvements go. Can't believe they think this function shouldn't even get a default key and be shouted from the rooftops.

I really wish that instead of just unbind all it shifted to a standard selection mode so you could move between the chain system and a standard selection system at the press of a button. There are "some" times I appreciate the chain, but in those pre-combat situation it is a nightmare. Fortunately F1-F4 allows relatively quick cycling between characters but it is still slower and more annoying than it should be.

The thing that really gets me is that in combination with the above movement issues there is no pause - there is no way to give simultaneous orders while paused..., but i guess this is "no RTwP" - but it makes planning before fights a lot of trouble with serious frustration.

Combine this with the strange initiative system - getting supprised by my own ambush is always a classic "Baldur's Gate 3 EA moment" - and the weakest thing in the whole game at the moment imo is pre-battle tactics due to poor systems.

This is huge though. I've bound it to ALT+F.

Sneaky Larian. I hope that this is just one of many more improvements to come.

Yeah its a little bizarre. Outside of combat or dialog, I don't really understand why the other characters in the party even need to occupy a physical space at all? Like if I can't control them directly as a unit, I'd rather they just behaved like ghosts, not actually touching the ground or interacting with anything in the environment until they are actually selected.

Visually they could still be ambling around for the sense of realism, but in a practical sense, couldn't the whole party just be considered to be moving within the space defined by the single selected PC? And then the rest of the gang just sort of materialize or dematerialize when the situation calls for it? You know, like combat starts, and the selected PC says something like "Rally to me!" and then the 3 other PCs just warp into position behind the currently selected PC?

I don't get the point of watching the 3 others characters tripping over each other in my peripheral vision during the simple exploration or non combat movement stuff.

If I can't move the whole group as a unit, or define their individual paths with waypoints or issue commands in sequence via some kind of pause feature, then there's no real reason to try and set up ambushes or attempt tactical positioning prior to combat. It might as well be a single PC doing everything at those times, and the rest of the party just kind of shows up behind the main selected PC when a combat or a dialog begins.

I don't know, I just hate everything about the non combat tethering dynamic. It reminds me of playing Contra and watching Player 2 just die in the water constantly while Player 1 tries to jump up to the next platform charging ahead lol. Like does anyone actually think 3 legged relay races are fun for more than 3 minutes? Cause I certainly don't. And that's what the chain feels like to me. Wrap it up in tinfoil and launch it at the sun! There has to be a better way.

The way its set up now, its like the game is trying to create the impression of controlling a full party (I guess because that's what BG was?) when in fact we are only ever in control of a single PC. That's just not Baldur's Gate as far as I'm concerned. It might still be D&D, and perhaps more like the Pen and Paper experience, but its not at all what I was expecting from this title given its lineage.

Not trying to be caustic here, I'd really rather the game succeeded, but its currently failing my basic shortlist test for the things that are essential to a proper successor to the Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale IE series.

D&D ruleset
Forgotten Realms game setting

Full Party control (eg godmode)
A large party, with a large pool of characters to choose from (say 6 out of 18 or thereabouts)

Plenty of games have come out satisfying one or the other condition, but the reason why Neverwinter Nights was not a proper successor is because it failed on the full party control aspect, instead it went with AI henchmen. The reason Dragon Age was not a proper successor is because it failed to provide the D&D and the Forgotten Realms setting, and it also went with AI henchmen. To capture what made Baldur's Gate so cool, and itself a proper successor to the old Gold Box games, you really need to meet all those requirements I think. Otherwise the game just isn't really what it's purporting to be.

The main thrust of Baldur's Gate gameplay was controlling the whole group of characters, and not just the one dude up front. BG3 is necessarily limited by the choice to go fully turn based, but that's no different than the old gold box set up, so not a deal breaker. In those games "The Party" (at least during exploration) was abstracted and simplified into just a single player control scheme. I would much prefer they do the same here. I would like to roam around the map as a single PC, with my party basically hidden behind me, but they still show up whenever any combats or dialogs occur. Right now you can't really do this. Soloing or returning to a pocket camp to dismiss or recruit followers is NOT what I'm talking about. I mean the entire current party is always along for the ride, but they only "appear" during non combat exploration cosmetically. If the player clicks the current hourglass button to enter Turn Based Mode 6 sec intervals, then the whole party should appear around the currently selected PC (in the real, not just as cosmetic apparitions) so I can then issue separate movement commands for positioning.

There's no need for a chain at all. It's only purpose is to allow for exploration/movement convenience as a single character, when it might as well just make all the other characters disappear from view. That way player only has to focus on moving one thing around - the Party.

During exploration the currently selected character is the stand in for the entire crew. In Co Op, you could do the same, but where instead of the whole Party, now player 1 and player 2 each take control Half the Party. Characters not currently selected, just going hidden until a combat or a dialog occurs, or until the player actively summons them up by using some button. If Player 2 "chains" themselves to player 1, then they go ghost and their half of the team just disappears into Player 1's temporary control, at least until a combat or dialog or whatever. I mean wouldn't that just make more sense?

Or to put it yet another way, when I click "Toggle Group All" to chain the party together, what should happen is that all the other characters then disappear or become merely cosmetic ghosts. They don't run into traps or climb ladders, they don't initiate dialogs or launch encounters. They just disappear behind the selected PC to whom they have been chained, so that the Leader in effect becomes The Party.

You know with just a single marque/circlet representing the group. I can immediately anticipate the response, "but I want to position different characters in different ways so that I can set up ambushes!" Or "what if I want sneak into the house with just one guy, while everyone else stays outside?" or "won't this make it harder to meta all the combats in the game, by trying to pre-place my whole party based on what I know from my last save?" and really this approach wouldn't have to mess with any of that. It's just an exploration convenience. Entering Turn Based mode, you could still do everything as normal. The only thing it would really change is how the exploration and simple non combat movement aspect is handled.

Just so it's catchy, I will call this proposed scheme...

Marley's Chains:

The idea is that once a PC is "chained" they become a ghost for all intents and purposes. They're still there (enfolded into the PC to whom they are chained), and they could even still be visible for the cinematic appeal, but they don't actually interact with the game's environment. In exploration mode, outside of combat/conversation, being chained just means going ghost.

"Chain All" puts the entire party into such a ghost mode, and they are considered to be moving inside the selected PC's space. In their wake, as it were. While chained in such a fashion the entire party just is the MC. If that makes sense?

For me one of the most spectacular failures of the current system is how it get beaten even at its own intended goal by other more traditional solutions.

I mean, the idea should be something like "Here, with our chain mechanic you'll always be in control only of one character, so having multiple ones under your command will be smooth and easy and we'll spare you the bother to control them as well".
Except, you then compare it with a game like Pathfinder Kingmaker (or even better its imminent sequel Wrath of the Righteous) arguably the closest thing to a modern Baldur's Gate 2 on the market, and you realize in how many ways they made the most typical "obsolete" party control actually more practical even in terms of "moving the party as a whole".

- Do you need to move around as a group? Just click and move at will, and with a quick click-and-drag you'll also decide how to rotate your whole formation on the ground (as it was in the old titles, by the way).
- Do you need to do a skill check in the environment or open a lock or disable a trap? One single click with your full party selected and the game will send forward the character with the overall best skill score for the task. Painless, quick, intuitive.
- Do you need to do group stealth? Just click the appropriate button/keybind and put in or out of stealth the entire party (or your sub-selection of it).

I was playing WotR Beta 3 just tonight and while it has its own issues (the pathfinding in turn-based mode can be bugged as hell on certain rooms/doors) half of the time I kept thinking at how much more intuitive/enjoyable it was to control compared to BG3 (which I played just a couple of hours before).

- Do you need to do a skill check in the environment or open a lock or disable a trap? One single click with your full party selected and the game will send forward the character with the overall best skill score for the task. Painless, quick, intuitive.
- Do you need to do group stealth? Just click the appropriate button/keybind and put in or out of stealth the entire party (or your sub-selection of it).

These two things especially are killing me. I REALLY want them to make it so that in dialogues too, if my rogue is better than my fighter at Deception, he/she makes the Deception roll. They are a TEAM. It isn't the MC Show. Well, at least, it shouldn't be, but right now it is. I don't feel like it's a real party. It's more like a band where one person gets all the spotlight. So, it's more like MC and His/Her Merry Band when it should be a party where everyone's strengths are brought to the table.

Yeah I mean that's a for sure! But I'm just looking at how they might salvage the exploration and general "moving around" experience without totally ash-canning their entire scheme and starting from scratch, since I honestly don't think that is something they would be willing to do at this point.

This thread is currently titled "BG3 Party Movement Mechanic" but we don't actually have a "party movement mechanic" at all, what we have is a single character movement mechanic and that's it.

If chained, then sure, up to 3 other characters can be made to follow the selected character to whom they are chained, but their actual movements while chained are currently completely out of our control. They don't move as a party. Instead their individual pathing is left up to the whims of the AI, which frequently fails by allowing those chained characters to run into hazardous terrain, pointlessly climb up and down stuff, or initiate combats or dialogs when we don't want them to.

This is why I think they should just transform the current Chains into "Marley's Chains."

When chained, the other characters just behave as if they were ghosts. They don't interact with the environment or get drawn into combats or dialogs. Only the currently selected character should be able to do that.

That way we don't need competent AI pathing, which is the primary issue right now. If nobody ever ran into the flames or bled out on the floor or accidentally triggered dialogs or encounters, while we were trying to maneuver someone else, then we wouldn't all be in here grumbling about it. But the fact that the game has been out for more than a year, and the pathing still blows, means that this is probably not an issue they're going to be able to fix. So I think they should just create a mode where the entire party is represented by the single selected character and everyone else only "appears" cosmetically, as ghosts, until the party is expanded out in full due to a dialog, or a combat, or because the player manually presses the Chain/Unchain button to switch them from Ghost mode to Normal mode on the fly.

In a Ghost Chain scheme all those pathing problems would go away, at least while the party is moving as a unit. Unless the player wants them all out at once, in which case they can just click the Unchain toggle to achieve that. Then all they really need is a prompt to select which PC does the talking when dialog or a specific character action is required. It would just feel a lot more streamlined that way I think. More like the old Gold Box games than Baldur's Gate 1/2, but at least it wouldn't be nearly as frustrating as what we have right now.