Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Companions in BG3 are an amusement parks

This is a little different story ...
But what is even wrong about them being Level 1?

< Shadowheart >
Kinda easy ... memory wipe, what else is there to say.
< Astarion >
This one seem completely fine to me. Yes, i get that he is cencuries old, and probably should have some experiences ... but on the other hand, if you talk to him, all his previous life was just about "being noble" ... so, it makes sence that he have no experience as Rogue, he never needed to picklock, stealth or shoot/stab anything ... he litteraly tells you that his work was to charm some noble lady and bring her to his master's lair. :P
< Wyll >
This one is tricky ... he is kinda folkhero, i dont even know what "great acomplishments" give him his title ... he introduce himself as "slayer of kobolds", and you met him a little later than everyone else, so he is not exactly "level 1" ... maybe his story isnt so epic as he claims.
< Gale >
Yes, i get that ... Gale claims that he was miracle, there is a lot of stories of his spellcasting ... but then he kinda screwed and he have now something in his chest that consumes magic. To me, its quite good story (not best, certainly not exceptional, but accaptable) that his talent was damaged by this. :P
< Lae'zel >
She is actualy the only one who seem odd ... Githyanki should have precise training, and herself mentions countless times that she do have precise training ... yet, it dont seem like that. :-/ But, for this one we can easily use the tadpole excuse. :P

And that is what i dont understand ...
Everyone in Faerun knows that Githyanki exists ... they just dont appear often, but it is possible.
Everyone in Faerun knows that Vampires exists ... they just dont appear often, but it is possible. What is so odd about Astarion except being a Vampire Spawn?
Everyone in Faerun knows that Hells exists ... beings that live there, just dont appear often, but it is possible. What is so odd about Karlach except being Hells General?

For Lae'zel is that okey ... and for everyone else its seen like superspecial überCool background.
I wonder why?

Hmm, maybe that these oddities have decided to gather in one party?

I am not sure why level 1 in BG3 needs to be explained in detail, when BG1 didn't bother. Candlekeep is supposedly an impenetrable fortress, yet two level 1 would be assassins manage to attack your main character in the prologue. Gorion is a powerful mage and Harper, yet manages to call two of his old friends to help, one of which is lev 2 and the other lev 1. Was he actually counting on them to act as armed escort? And why are they even so inexperienced, if they have been working as agents for some time now? Funny thing, once they join your party, you kill a few giant bugs together and Khalid has learned more about combat than in all his years as a Harper. Which can take about a day in game time.

Yet being a novice harper is entirely different from being a level 1 archmage Chosen of Mystra or the level 1 Infernal Blood War Commander of the Nine Hells, or the level 1 centuries old Vampire. I can suspend my disbelief for gameplay reasons but only so far.

Dragon Age Origins covered this very nicely with the origin stories. Starting at level 3 or 4 in D&D would already allow for all kinds of credible background for companions.

Look, these are very fair points but when you list them as above it precisely highlights my issue...they are all exceptional. Compare to the characters in BG2...Aerie is an example of a rare race as was Haer'Delis and Viconia...the rest were for the most part more down to earth and relatable. Sure, they all had stories but to my memory none approaching the kind we see in BG3.

I had forgotten about Karlach (supposedly a recruitable companion)...so again we will have another level 1 character whose history is fighting battles in the Hells. That's a hell of a backstory (pun intended).

We will just have to agree that we have different opinions on the matter; I find the companions OTT.

But they are not presented as novice Harpers in the game. Considering it takes about one day of killing things to level up in BG1, a novice Harper would have been someone who started out yesterday, maybe a week ago. Yet they have been Harpers far longer than that, and Gorion ask them for help for a reason (unless he wanted to set up his ward with protectors as experienced as the fumbling Candlekeep assassins). Their background does not explain how they are so inexperienced in their chosen profession. This mismatch of skills vs. personal histor applies to other companions in BG1 as well. It becomes very noticeable, as you play along, that NPC levels have not much to do with their backstory, but instead with their starting location. And so the infamous Zhentarim sent an apprentice mage and a beginner rogue to try to find out who is behind the iron crisis, while Skie, the pampered noblewoman who wastes her time with Eldoth, is a master thief by the time you hire her. You might be able to suspend your disbelief on that, but I find trying to fit the levelling mechanics into BG1's story just breaks immersion. So ignore it, same as in BG3.

One reason why they have level 1 is because it is a game. If characters started at level 5, this would mean they could reach much fewer levels in the game.
Character development is important in RPGs and unfortunately 5e is a huge obstacle in this.
Secondly, if the character started at level 5, the player would have to make virtually all the important choices in character development when creating the character.
This is definitely not a good thing for people who haven't contact with 5e.
After all, level is just a number anyway, and it definitely shouldn't dictate history.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Level shouldn’t be a strict indicator of what kind of character we are dealing with. Though we can all agree that there’re some limits to this as well. Khalid & Jaheira is a good example. They’re low level because of balancing purposes obviously. On the other hand they’re not Harpers leaders, or any kind of legendary (yet) heroes, so here’s less dissonance overall.

On the other hand I don’t see any problem in meeting high level companions later in game. Quite the opposite — I think trying to make best of pregen characters is an interesting minigame. I don’t really like minmaxing in pursuit of achieving a best optimized party. When playing IceWind Dale I limited myself in creating characters with help of pretty sophisticated mechanic which didn’t allow me to simply dump points in a desirable stats.

True, but then again I never felt Larian aimed for anything of that sort. I don't think the emotional response is something they are terribly concerned with.

You're missing the point which is the over the top epic stories rather than if +/- a few levels makes more sense or not.

Yeah Jaheira and Khalid should maybe be level 4-5 to reflect their backgrounds more accurately, but they still don't have a completely bonkers backstory that claims they are/were epic heroes before "tadpole".

They would be much better if they had diverse dialogue choices and could be played by your real life friends. BGIII is not a substitute for real friends. If it is that means people like you and can't or won't admit it for some reason. I leave it to ya'll to discover how to use magic to communicate with them.

You missunderstand my question ...
I would get that from people who concider them all too extraordinary ... what i dont get are people who are completely willing to forgive Lae'zel her extraordinarity(?), yet they have problem with others.

Hahaha now I understand, thank you for the clarification. Yes, it is a very good analysis.

Honestly, I knew it was a bad idea to post on the forums today after a late night, I can hardly understand anything I am reading!

And yet I'd take the extraordinary companions from Planescape over BG1 companions any time. Whether someone writes "ex farmer" in their biography doesn't make a fictional character more interesting for me. And it wouldn't surprise me if Astarion managed to gather more fans among BG3 players than Khalid ever did.

edit: I also don't see how Astarion is claiming to be an epic hero (or villain). He was under the rule of his master for two hundred years, and as such not allowed to act true to his monstrous nature; before that he was a city clerk. So where would he get that epic experience? As for vampires being rare, for that to be believable you'd have to retcon BG2. Because while In BG1 it was skeletons and ghouls, in BG2 the city is overrun by vampires. You bump iunto them in the streets quite often (nevermind the liches hiding in dungeons). Wyll I don't find any more epic than the warlock class in itself., considering you create a character by making a deal with a powerful magical being. Laezel is a standard fighter, and not even considered an adult by her people (according to her). Gale & Shadowheart are the ones I am not sure about, because I suspect one is lying and the other doesn't know the truth.

You can absolutely have epic stories and extraordinary characters. But that doesn't have to be at level one before the game has even started. Pacing.

Levelling mechanics are a weak point to base your pacing and character development on in a computer game. In Planescape Torment you start out as a very unusual character, in a very unusual (at least for a game beginning) place, and the very first companion you meet is a floating & talking skull. And yet BG1 never manages to create a story that would be as engaging as that of PST. It has other areas where it does better (such as combat), but not storytelling. At least in my opinion.

There are dragons in BG2 why not having one as a companion?

Oh this is sooo not true.

I wouldn't be surprised if a Sorcerer companion has the Dragon Sorcerer line so by base DnD 5e, you kinda can have a part dragon party member. Cause Dragon Sorcerers can get their power from Dragon heritage.

Have you guys considered that the Illithids are only kidnapping people for the absolute who are special? I don't know how much on this as been mined, but I won't mind as much every origin character being 'special', if it fits in with the machinations of the Mind-Flayers and the cult of the Absolute. Of course if that would also make a custom character's lackluster background a bit more incongruous.

Well then they’ve made a mistake to kidnap the “main” character.