Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Does anyone like the Origin system?

I'd try to explain it again but I don't see the point when you are purposefully ignoring any post that explains the issue (in fact, it's so blatant I'm suspecting I may LITERALLY be in your ignore list and you won't address this reply either) and then following with another "I don't see the problem".


You seem to think that "more options are always great" as if for some form of magic they came as a net bonus, with no compromises, when reality is very different.
I don't care if I can just "ignore Origins and play a custom character", because that doesn't address the issue. I care for everything the game had to give up to even allow these Origin characters to exist.

Let's take DOS 2 as an example: I would have gladly welcomed a game where companions interacted WAY more with each other (rather than ignoring their mutual existence and talking just to the Main Character) over one that blew most of its extra budget and manpower into writing/voicing these same few companions from multiple perspectives (read: playable or not).

I think the issue is simply that some people have a different opinion to you and have valid concerns over the implementation of the custom character experience? Every previous iteration of BG or other games such as IWD, NWN, were always about playing a custom character so nothing has really been reversed at all. Origins companions in this case are an import from DOS; in an ideal world I personally feel BG3 should have nothing to do with DOS at all, other than being made by the developer of DOS and being a party based CRPG.

If you look at the advertising for the game, it's all about the Origins companions so in a sense it comes across as a game like The Witcher or Mass Effect. I always felt D&D CRPGS were about roleplaying your own creation not taking control of someone else's. Purely from ignorance, I cannot think of a single game that successfully managed to integrate both an Origins system and a custom character one...I'm more than happy to be corrected on this because, as I said, I am saying this from my own relatively limited experience of playing similar games to BG.

I like the origin system, for what it's worth (not much, I know...). I'll definitely be doing custom character playthroughs (probably multiple) but I also intend to play every origin character at some point. I think our custom characters will shape up to have more identity and impact on the story in time. It's already hinted at in the dream sequences and with the choices you make in regards to Dream Daisy. The first part of the game is really just setting the tone and introducing the various characters. The story is just picking up. It's difficult to see because we have barely 1/3 of the story so far, but I do have faith that Larian is working to provide the best experience that they can. The custom characters haven't had much story time for players to flesh them out, and I doubt people want for the custom characters to be handed a fleshed out story right away? The origin characters are able to have complex stories at this point because they don't require the players to design them through gameplay interaction. Basically, we don't have the full story yet.

I agree with Alexandrite, Blackheifer, and Evilvik on this. I'm looking forward to playing the origin characters. Is it really a waste of resources for the game if there are people that want to and will engage with and enjoy the content? Players who don't want to play that way aren't required to engage with them at all. Time will tell if they end up missing out on a majority of the story. I'm hopeful that Larian has thought about and will address this, as they intend for multiplayer (and thus parties without origin characters) to be a big part of the experience. I disagree that the world and characters are bland and flat. I don't have as many hours in the game as some people here, but I've had a great time! I also like a good story, and have really enjoyed what I've seen of the companions' stories so far. I understand that not everything is perfect, but it's also a work in progress. And it is getting better. I've seen that from videos on Youtube of early gameplay and my own playthroughs this latest patch.

Edit: Before people come for me! I do want to say that I recognize the issue people are raising about this being a DnD game, where character customization is one of the foundational aspects of the game. Sometimes I do wonder if having so many origin characters is too ambitious. I'm just personally enjoying these aspects and generally have a positive outlook on it. I'm not trying to dismiss anyone's criticisms (I think many of the concerns have validity even if I disagree with some of them) but I've been following this thread for a while and want to provide a different perspective.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. First of all, no you're not on my ignore list. I simply disagree, that's all.



I don't think the game has had to give anything up? We haven't even seen the whole game yet, the whole story. I just happen to be enjoying the story and game as it is now, without a wish to re-write it from the ground up. Look, all of us appear to just be wasting time snapping at each other while waiting for Larian to release their long-awaited community update.



If you're speaking specifically to me, I have mentioned several times I've never played the Divinity series. The comparison is lost on me I'm afraid.

Aaaand yet again Pathfinder: Path of the righteous does one more thing right....No frigging <<origins>> , just LOTS of detailed and interesting companions that interacts with your created character ...which by the way has TONS of classes and sub-classes to choose from. Things are trucking along at a good pace, recommend checking the latest PotR built. Game is out this summer.
Meanwhile Larian...WTF?! Probably still recording Origins cinematics. Snails pace in gameplay improvements.

Yes, supposedly we will be getting good-aligned companions later on. But the discussion was about the current companions being great and so I am disagreeing with that. I am of course willing to wait and see on the future companions, though given that I am yet to find a single Larian created NPC that I liked I highly doubt I will see anything I like from those additional companions.

As for the companions being well written, yes there is a subjective element to it, but it is also objective. And these companions are not well written. They are largely edgelord cliches.

...and yet, the companions do interact with each other, here for sure. It's been a while since I played DOS2, so I don't recall, one way or the other. If it's "but they're limited", are you looking to get their whole story laid out in the first act? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I have already talked on the "what they gave up to make the Origin characters voiced" point. They didn't give up anything that isn't "given up" in any other game with voiced companions. If it's giving up on the PC being voiced, I doubt that it's got a lot to do with voiced NPCs. After all, the PC in BG 1 and 2 was a silent protagonist, barring some selection blurbs. Ironically, Hawke being voiced in DA 2 was one of the things that lit the old BSN forums on fire, because "their tone doesn't fit what I wanted it to be". So that's a lose/lose proposition.

If they spend too much time defining Tav, then we run into the issue of all the possible variations, even just in EA, let alone what may be possible on release. Parallel to that issue will be those that expect to be able to define that particular themselves, instead of "playing Larian's Character". I've watched this debate for decades. I've seen every iteration of the argument, and while I was initially all about silent protagonists, I've come to the realization that both have their merits, and neither is going to be perfect. Even with a silent protagonist, I've found that dialog options that I may have wanted to take weren't available. For a voiced protagonist, where was the choice to tell TIM to take a long walk off a short pier after the first mission in ME 2? Where was the option to not work for Cerebus at all? Pitfalls abound, because no matter how well a game is received, and we'd be hard pressed to claim that ME 2 wasn't a good game, and that it wasn't well received, since most people seem to believe it was the best game in the series, it's going to have things missing that players wanted, and things included that they didn't.

But I digress. The budget to make the comps voiced doesn't necessarily affect whether or not the main/custom character gets voice lines, or a lot of exposition about who they are/were before the story events. In the vast majority of these games, where the character isn't totally defined, such as the Witcher series, the character is shaped by the player's choices, from what's available, voiced or otherwise. Some of a PC's backstory doesn't even become apparent until later in the game, from the player's perspective, such as being a Bhaalspawn. Other characters involved may have known, but we didn't know until later in the game. So I don't know what's in store for Tav, or which ever of the Origin characters someone may choose to play as. I don't have access to story boards, or scripts, or even a vague outline of Act II or Act III.

The only real issue I've had so far is not being a fan of the "only some of the NPCs will carry on after Act I" thing. I'd much rather they continue on in the story, even if it's a "split the party, and send some this way, and some that way" thing, or an "All hands on deck" situation to get to where ever it is we're going from where we are now.

Ultimately, we don't know if the team will be standing after the first act is completed. The last time they touched on this topic, it was not yet fully settled.
I suspect that if people complained enough, they changed it, especially since there is a good chance that some followers will just kill each other or that the player will be able to betray them (I expect the option that, for example, we will be able to give Astarion to Cazador).
In fact, changing it shouldn't be a big problem to Larian

Do we have any news on how the origin characters will be handled in comparison to ours? I just saw a video where there was a full narration for many things from Astarion's pow, including but not limited to his own specific conversation options and new parts of the story we simply do not see when not playing as him. Which simply means that the Origin characters would have far more story than ours, having access to everything we do and having their own story... I am really not a fan of that, its not even just an option to play as them, its Larian telling us how to play the game instead of giving us as many tools as they can to let us play the way we want. I like Astarion, I dont want to play as him but I also do not want to miss out on huge chunks of what the game has to offer.. cant there be a middle ground?
Genuinely, why do we even need origin characters This isnt DoS, its BG, nobody expected them, but now they are here and a seemingly more important than our own created characters, that just doesnt feel right.

I feel ya dude. The origin character thing is my biggest gripe with the game. Resources should have been put into allowing maximum freedom to create a unique character and focusing on game world reactivity to your char and your choices.

Imagine if that extra VA work for the origin chars and all that effort was put towards their reactions as npcs to your character instead. Towards banter between npcs. Towards commentary on your actions. Towards comments about your race, class, background. They would have felt so alive and each playthru with a custom char would be that much more unique.

But they are there and there to stay because reskinning DOS2 with the popular BG skin = a likely money maker. Still sucks tho.

To the reskin refrain, it's not just that it has the words Baldur's Gate in the name. Like if this was Baldur's Gate: The Hamster Awakens, or Rogue None: A Baldur's Gate Story hehe, then sure, do whatever they want I guess. But they put the 3 in there! Called it Baldur's Gate 3! Like way to set the bar on the roof lol.

I probably wouldn't care at all if they wanted to go with this origins pre-gen idea, provided they got more of the rest of in order first, but they're running that idea up front. The enthusiasm I won't feel, when they finally unlock the tabs and I can switch from custom to one of their Origins characters, is palpable hehe. In a years time they could have been hitting us with a patch every month that adding to the custom char creation screen or content in the very early part of the game, and I'd be thinking they are working hard and doing it right. That's not really what they've been doing though. Or I don't know, maybe they have, and it's just going so slowly that I'm in like an event horizon situation? I'm over here thinking ok that ACT I is largely settled and showing us what will go in, but maybe they are going to drop heavy towards the end and start doing switcheroos all over the place? It's just hard to see based on what's been added in the first 5 patches though. They should go for broke on patch 6 and focus on doing something new with the char creation options, start banging out the models and showboat a little how ACT 2 is going to way more glorious than we're thinking now. Or how about even just dropping some promo art or banner updates that shows the game is something beyond those 5 characters we keep seeing over and over.

Like I don't know, maybe show Zevlor and Kagha doing a pose, or struzan'd out like the banner above, but showing Ragz and Gut looking ominous. Aradin at the Gate. Some of the chars the game is actually about, as opposed to the Chars of the party. Know what I'm saying? I mean that would start to make it feel right at least. Give the game more sense of scale, even at that level of what to promo and highlight. More than just the Origin companions all over everything

Haha I agree completely, with both of you. I dont know, something just doesnt feel right, especially with this being as you said, Baldurs Gate 3. After playing Wrath almost non stop recently, I am just not nearly as excited for BG3 despite the monumentaly higher production values and the obvious love the devs have for it, I am trying to tell myself that its stupid to be annoyed by the Origin characters and how they are treated compared to he PC, but the more I try not to think about it the more annoying it gets. I suppose it is a really big issue for me, I just dont want to feel being forced into playing as someone predetermined just to get the full picture, especially not in a BG game, hell roleplaying as someone specific is what just about every other rpg provides, BG and cprgs in general are famous for not being that. Especially if this whole Origin character thing comes at the expence of more content for our PC.

I really hope they nail the implementation, to really just make it another option, not a better choice.

Speakign off, no news so far? I read all the patch notes and such and it does feel like the aditions are very meager to be honest, I assume they are gearing up for something big but for a years worth of updates this isnt much content at all. At least an update in how exactly this all will work would be very appreciated, I see im not the only one confused and annoyed to say the least.

I’m still with Tuco on this. The more I think about it, the more I think it’s the sort of thing that only really serves to limit the potential of custom characters and disincentivizes further development in other areas, while sinking development costs at the same time.

Like I wouldn’t be surprised if the devs thought at one point, what’s the point in adding additional races, if so much effort is being put into exclusive content for the special origin characters with a fixed set of races and appearance options, for one? No work appears to have been done on custom backgrounds at all, judging from how we are still forced to be Baldurians and no new dialogue options related to that have even popped up since the start of EA.

My custom character still feels like a passenger just observing the rest of the party, and I’m not very confident this feeling may ever be shaken off, purely due to the origin system threatening to stress this further.

Im mostly curious about how would we reveal history of Origin characters, when we will play as them. O_o
I mean, Shadowheart is obvious exception in this rule ... but except her, we should know litteraly everything about them since the beginning.

That, and dialogue choices ...
That puzzles me the most.
Will we get limited dialogue options, or will we get in every important conversation suggested [SHADOWHEART] options ... that we will be completely able to ignore and play her as Gith loving, benevolent, helping, selfless and Selune loving worshipper of Shar?

Im affraid this was chubblots own work ...
I mean he specificly written there that he "was working on this project since patch 4" ... if that would mean to just datamine sound files and glue them to appropriate video, i gues it would be potentialy faster. O_o

I might be wrong tho, obviously ... but personaly i would not expect this in final release.

me likey

Oh my god i remember in my DOS2 playthrough doing the red prince as my main character. I thought im gonna get his ending specific slides as i did all his quests immediately, turns out it matters fuck all just generic slides.

When I still had hopes that this could turn out to be a real Baldur's Gate sequel (or at least a spiritual successor), the Origins system bothered me a lot - it is basically an antithesis to BG's (almost blank slate) main char. Since I realized this is going to be much closer to DOS than to any Infinity Engine game, it is not bothering me nearly as much, but I would still much rather see the resources allocated somewhere else - i.e. fleshing out the experience when playing the custom character or just adding content not bound to selecting a specific origin character. Or implementing a day/night cycle. Or better controls. Or making the world not seem like half a square kilometer area.