|
|
|
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
|
Oh sure they make changes. But these are not changes that I would have considered straying from the possible roadmap, but simply small balancing changes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
|
Don't be so dramatic. I don't think anyone tried to censor anyone else here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
|
I would dare to opose that opinion ... There is many people with quite negative opinions on different matters ... but as long as they can provide reasons, and arguments ... nobody called them whiny childern. O_o I could give you few examples ... But i believe you can find them too. 
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings.  Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
|
It's the internet my friend it has to have some bad comments. And I doubt it's only one side who does this.
In the Bg3-larian-bad yes no I think I'm mostly on the anti Larian camp, but I don't think no one in "my side" has ever been a dick online. This is online. Best we can do is try our best and talk on point.
|
|
|
|
|
|
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Apr 2020
|
Why? I think it's a bullshit PR reason - they want us to think we have more influence than we actually have on the final product, and by keeping us guessing they keep hope for change alive, as well as keeping the forum active and subsequently keep interest in the game without any effort on their part. I don't think they even care about that. They knew they would increase their cashflow with BG brand. Now that they sold 2 million on EA, I don't think they have any stimuli to change the course of action. It is a shame because they got so many good feedback early on, that certainly could be make this masterpiece. Plus they have Solasta that just made a big test ground for 5E that they can easily steal good ideas. I will have no pity on Larian when the game is released. They had plenty of opportunities.
|
|
|
|
|
|
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2020
|
You know what annoys me about this silence? It's the fact that Larian probably has a roadmap and they know exactly how they want the game to look like, but they are keeping quiet about it.
Why? I think it's a bullshit PR reason - they want us to think we have more influence than we actually have on the final product, and by keeping us guessing they keep hope for change alive, as well as keeping the forum active and subsequently keep interest in the game without any effort on their part. I'm sure you are right that Larian know what they want the game to look like; most likely it's basically the EA design you are playing now, which is exactly what was shown in their pre-EA advertising. I don't expect anything to change markedly without overwhelming community support, which is difficult as most players do not actually express their opinion openly. My assumption is that Larian try to determne the opinion of the silent majority from their gameplay data, but whether this is a good proxy is hard to say. As to why there is an EA at all, I think it is most likely that it lowers the risk associated with the game. Knowing the overall reaction to the game is positive ( and it is, regardless of whether any individual forum poster likes or hates the game ) allows Larian a degree of confidence that BG3 will not break the studio. It is also possible that their ambitions for the game were in danger of exhausting their financial resources; getting EA revenue is substantially better than taking loans against future revenue. The EA sales so far should give them several years financial buffer based on current studio headcount, or alternatively allow them to pour more resources into their vision. It would be nice, however, if they spent some of that revenue to employ full-time staff dedicated to interfacing between the studio and their player base.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Duchess of Gorgombert
|
|
Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
|
Don't be so dramatic. I don't think anyone tried to censor anyone else here. <Redacted> Guys, enough. There have been several requests today for people to quit sniping at each other. And before anyone asks, the quoted bits are just the latest examples of many and it applies to everyone who's been getting a bit too smart. Please stop and think before going full keyboard warrior because I'm going to start suspending people if this doesn't stop.
Last edited by Raze; 16/03/22 09:15 AM. Reason: deleted forum account
J'aime le fromage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Mar 2021
|
I have two theories on why Larian has been so quiet.
1) They are waiting for E3 to do a big marketing reveal.
2) The flooding was worse than they realized and they have had to convert the studio into a seaworthy vessel. In the process they realized this was their chance to escape Belgium finally and are currently trying to row the entire studio up the Lys to France.
I am sure its the first, but I am secretly hoping its the second reason...
Blackheifer
|
|
|
|
|
|
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2020
|
They are aiming too low if they want to merely row to France. They should cross the Atlantic Ocean and get all the way to Canada.
Last edited by Saito Hikari; 30/05/21 04:23 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
|
When the EA only started I assumed the silence was a result of the overwhelming number of people who bought the game and provided feedback, but now it seems like it's not the reason anymore, and probably never was.
About E3 - even if it's true that the current silence is because they are waiting for E3, it doesn't explain the silence ever since the EA released
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
|
If they are waiting for E3 ...
Shouldnt they by now start teasing? O_o
I mean usualy they start posting on Twitter something like "in two weeks we give you a show". O_o
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
|
|
|
|
|
|
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
|
You know what annoys me about this silence? It's the fact that Larian probably has a roadmap and they know exactly how they want the game to look like, but they are keeping quiet about it.
Why? I think it's a bullshit PR reason - they want us to think we have more influence than we actually have on the final product, and by keeping us guessing they keep hope for change alive, as well as keeping the forum active and subsequently keep interest in the game without any effort on their part. Exactly my thought. 99% of the game is DECIDED. Stuff we complain about is that +/- 1% that will change, as we have seen; very minor cosmetic stuff. Plus I feel they are taking <we are now AAA big boys club> attitude towards their fans and future games. CD PROJEKT RED anyone? But its ok, we have CHOICES. Baldurs gate 2 still going strong, Pathfinder: Wrath of the righteous looks to be an amazing <BG2'esk> sequel game, Solasta just released with an amazing D^D gameplay system (if it does well, Solasta 2 will be amazing!), and BG3 remains a huge question mark. God I dislike nearly all the playable NPCs...what a waste. Not sure Minsc and Boo can carry that weight on their shoulders alone...or maybe? Larian might just blow us away at E3. That will be the tipping point for me whether I stay or give up on BG3, and I believe probably for many older (and younger...?) fans of the Baldurs gate series.
Last edited by mr_planescapist; 30/05/21 08:32 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2020
|
If they are waiting for E3 ...
Shouldnt they by now start teasing? O_o
I mean usualy they start posting on Twitter something like "in two weeks we give you a show". O_o A lot of people on Reddit lately seem to be under the impression that Larian is NOT attending E3. All the information I can dig up seems to indicate that this is most likely the case. However, there is supposed to be a general DnD event in July (16-17) hosted by WotC.
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
|
If they are waiting for E3 ...
Shouldnt they by now start teasing? O_o
I mean usualy they start posting on Twitter something like "in two weeks we give you a show". O_o A lot of people on Reddit lately seem to be under the impression that Larian is NOT attending E3. All the information I can dig up seems to indicate that this is most likely the case. However, there is supposed to be a general DnD event in July (16-17) hosted by WotC. Well, I have no idea why some assumed otherwise? It's very rare for games that are already announced/publicly playable in Early Access to bother with some (COSTLY) E3 presentation. If anything others were guessing Larian would "trail after the E3 hype" by releasing their update concurrently to the event. I find that strategy questionable as well, frankly. I can't imagine a better way to get your "big update" completely overlooked by the audience and the press than releasing it during the "hype week" of the industry were countless new projects get revealed/shown to the public for the first time.
Last edited by Tuco; 30/05/21 09:25 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
|
I dont see much difference in between "waiting for E3 to present there" and "waiting for E3 to start my own presentation" since its all just matter of different adress in browser for us. 
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
|
I dont see much difference in between "waiting for E3 to present there" and "waiting for E3 to start my own presentation" since its all just matter of different adress in browser for us. Me neither. They are both terrible ideas, in the end. Still, the assumption that they would be doing a presentation at E3 is most likely wrong, anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
|
I don't expect anything to change markedly without overwhelming community support, which is difficult as most players do not actually express their opinion openly. My assumption is that Larian try to determne the opinion of the silent majority from their gameplay data, but whether this is a good proxy is hard to say. Read this article : https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PanderingToTheBaseQuoted from there : So, just give the fans exactly what they want, and everything will work out. Right?
Wrong. Generally speaking, the more intensely devoted fans in a fandom are usually outnumbered by the casual fans. But the more devoted a fan becomes, the more active (and louder) they become in the fandom. So while a few million casual fans might enjoy an episode of a show without ever making that fact widely known, a handful of devoted and occasionally unhinged fans are screaming about how the show is Ruined FOREVER, which can be seen and heard by everyone... including the people making the show. The creators may then start pandering to these voices exclusively, believing them to be the voice of everyone watching (which these fans will often claim to be) — but "everyone" in this case may in fact consist only of a handful of people, and what this minority wants and what the less-noisy fans want can differ drastically.
This presents a major problem. The property can end up becoming a private club, accessible only to a select few. Excluding the casual fans means they'll simply drift away to find something else to spend their time on, and raising the entry bar too high means you run the risk of locking out new fans who may have been interested in the property, but now find it too difficult to access. While the vocal minority might now be satisfied (and you can't even count on that), they rarely translate to enough ratings and/or sales to justify the property's continued existence — and to make matters worse, even this hardcore minority that you catered to may begin to drift away for numerous reasons (changing tastes, burnout, lessened interest, etc). This results in diminishing returns, ending in eventual cancellation if unchecked.
Furthermore, the overall quality of the property can begin to suffer if you just listen to the vocal minority; just because someone is intensely committed to a particular work of fiction doesn't necessarily mean they know what makes good fiction work. Well, I do know the opposite as well - not here, but elsewhere : Doing feedback, but being badmouthed by the forum inhabitants. Who do not like my feedback - or don't understand it. This is especially true when elitists are the majority in a forum. Not sure Minsc and Boo can carry that weight on their shoulders alone...or maybe? Well, at least Binsc and Moo can't.
Last edited by Raze; 16/03/22 09:18 AM. Reason: deleted forum account
When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon
"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
|
Me neither. They are both terrible ideas, in the end. Well ... isnt the story of life picking what misstake we do next? In the end.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
|
|
|
|
|
|
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2020
|
I don't expect anything to change markedly without overwhelming community support, which is difficult as most players do not actually express their opinion openly. My assumption is that Larian try to determne the opinion of the silent majority from their gameplay data, but whether this is a good proxy is hard to say. Read this article : https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PanderingToTheBaseQuoted from there : So, just give the fans exactly what they want, and everything will work out. Right?
Wrong. Generally speaking, the more intensely devoted fans in a fandom are usually outnumbered by the casual fans. But the more devoted a fan becomes, the more active (and louder) they become in the fandom. So while a few million casual fans might enjoy an episode of a show without ever making that fact widely known, a handful of devoted and occasionally unhinged fans are screaming about how the show is Ruined FOREVER, which can be seen and heard by everyone... including the people making the show. The creators may then start pandering to these voices exclusively, believing them to be the voice of everyone watching (which these fans will often claim to be) — but "everyone" in this case may in fact consist only of a handful of people, and what this minority wants and what the less-noisy fans want can differ drastically.
This presents a major problem. The property can end up becoming a private club, accessible only to a select few. Excluding the casual fans means they'll simply drift away to find something else to spend their time on, and raising the entry bar too high means you run the risk of locking out new fans who may have been interested in the property, but now find it too difficult to access. While the vocal minority might now be satisfied (and you can't even count on that), they rarely translate to enough ratings and/or sales to justify the property's continued existence — and to make matters worse, even this hardcore minority that you catered to may begin to drift away for numerous reasons (changing tastes, burnout, lessened interest, etc). This results in diminishing returns, ending in eventual cancellation if unchecked.
Furthermore, the overall quality of the property can begin to suffer if you just listen to the vocal minority; just because someone is intensely committed to a particular work of fiction doesn't necessarily mean they know what makes good fiction work. Yes, this is pretty much true, and has led to many videogame properties changing over time to target the perceived needs of the mainstream audience. Most of the money in the games industry is made from F2P and MMO properties that draw revenue from stores offering pay-to-win and/or "desirable" cosmetic items. These are not the sort of game that I want to play, but I recognise that for ANY game to justify a AAA development cost ( say, tens or hundreds of million $ ), the developer MUST lean towards the mainstream to some degree. So, we end up at the current position, where Owlcat can make a very faithful D&D game, but the audience that want to play the game is too small to justify a AAA budget. Conversely, Larian are in a position to make a AAA game, but can probably only afford to do so by leaning towards the mainstream, and deviating significantly from a faithful D&D representation. This very simple financial reality means that no amount of righteous fury from the more committed D&D audience has any chance of influencing key design decisions in BG3, and may simply result in offending the developers, which is probably self-defeating. I would expect ( or hope ) that the released game does take note of elements that have caused disappointment, and allows optional settings where financially practical, and moddability where this is not the case. But during early EA, while there are no optional settings available ( stability and completeness are more important ) I do not expect much more than minor design adjustments.
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Mar 2021
|
[quote]So, just give the fans exactly what they want, and everything will work out. Right?
Wrong. Generally speaking, the more intensely devoted fans in a fandom are usually outnumbered by the casual fans. But the more devoted a fan becomes, the more active (and louder) they become in the fandom. So while a few million casual fans might enjoy an episode of a show without ever making that fact widely known, a handful of devoted and occasionally unhinged fans are screaming about how the show is Ruined FOREVER, which can be seen and heard by everyone... including the people making the show. The creators may then start pandering to these voices exclusively, believing them to be the voice of everyone watching (which these fans will often claim to be) — but "everyone" in this case may in fact consist only of a handful of people, and what this minority wants and what the less-noisy fans want can differ drastically.
This presents a major problem. The property can end up becoming a private club, accessible only to a select few. Excluding the casual fans means they'll simply drift away to find something else to spend their time on, and raising the entry bar too high means you run the risk of locking out new fans who may have been interested in the property, but now find it too difficult to access. While the vocal minority might now be satisfied (and you can't even count on that), they rarely translate to enough ratings and/or sales to justify the property's continued existence — and to make matters worse, even this hardcore minority that you catered to may begin to drift away for numerous reasons (changing tastes, burnout, lessened interest, etc). This results in diminishing returns, ending in eventual cancellation if unchecked.
Furthermore, the overall quality of the property can begin to suffer if you just listen to the vocal minority; just because someone is intensely committed to a particular work of fiction doesn't necessarily mean they know what makes good fiction work. This. +1 It needs little stars around it and hearts and dancing mermaids. The subtext here is also about the issue of "fan entitlement". I won't get into it, I've upset enough people today....
Blackheifer
|
|
|
|
|
