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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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First, the basic rules of PnP are not a penal code, and if you do not follow it, SWAT will suddenly not burst into your home.
Secondly, the rules can sometimes even be heavily modified, it all depends on the group's approach. Some groups like to focus more on combat, while for others combat is absent.
Third, everyone plays the way they like.
I doubt that the group of players who really cares about whether they are implementing the rules exactly is actually large. There were even complaints about the most common homebrews on the forum.
Some people won't be happy if the game isn't 100% RAW or looks like BG2. I suspect that they don't even care if the game will be more enjoyable that way.
Reading the forums, you would get the impression that the game instead of 88% positive (which is a huge amount in the case of a controversial game in EA) should have at most 50-60%. I agree that changing the rules might be good. The question is what change you make and for what purpose. If you change everything about the way combat works You need to do it for the right reasons. By the way, this argument is precisely the reason Solasta is brought up so often here - Larian claimed they had to make this crazy changes because the more faithful way they claim they initially did wasn't fun, and then almost as an answer to a dare In comes Solasta and proves it isn't true and a more faithful version could be extremely fun. The problem I have with Solasta is that I don't think it's a good game.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
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First, the basic rules of PnP are not a penal code, and if you do not follow it, SWAT will suddenly not burst into your home.
Secondly, the rules can sometimes even be heavily modified, it all depends on the group's approach. Some groups like to focus more on combat, while for others combat is absent.
Third, everyone plays the way they like.
I doubt that the group of players who really cares about whether they are implementing the rules exactly is actually large. There were even complaints about the most common homebrews on the forum.
Some people won't be happy if the game isn't 100% RAW or looks like BG2. I suspect that they don't even care if the game will be more enjoyable that way.
Reading the forums, you would get the impression that the game instead of 88% positive (which is a huge amount in the case of a controversial game in EA) should have at most 50-60%. I agree that changing the rules might be good. The question is what change you make and for what purpose. If you change everything about the way combat works You need to do it for the right reasons. By the way, this argument is precisely the reason Solasta is brought up so often here - Larian claimed they had to make this crazy changes because the more faithful way they claim they initially did wasn't fun, and then almost as an answer to a dare In comes Solasta and proves it isn't true and a more faithful version could be extremely fun. The problem I have with Solasta is that I don't think it's a good game. Why don't you think combats are good in Solasta ? I mean, without comparing them to BG3. What's the problem about its rules and its combats mechanics ? The point here is only about combats and the rules implementations...visual effects, story, exploration and so on hasn't been brought.
Last edited by Maximuuus; 30/05/21 05:49 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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I would say combat in Solasta is slow, character movement and animation is janky and I wish the way casting work was done in a less strict way (try to cast with a shield to see what I mean) but I do think the basic systems are better than what we have in Bg3, a game which presumably made huge changes to make the combat system better and more suitable for a video game.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
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I would say combat in Solasta is slow, character movement and animation is janky and I wish the way casting work was done in a less strict way (try to cast with a shield to see what I mean) but I do think the basic systems are better than what we have in Bg3, a game which presumably made huge changes to make the combat system better and more suitable for a video game. You can change the need of somatic component in the options if you will  If I had to compare the speed of combats, I'm not sure one is slower than the other to be honnest (without considering the AI bugs of BG3 of course). This is probably something I could try in the dungeon maker.
Last edited by Maximuuus; 30/05/21 06:14 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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I think objectively there is no real difference in the speed, and Solasta is probably a little faster. But they can't compete the animations of Bg3.
Thanks for the tip about components. I'll check it out
Last edited by Abits; 30/05/21 06:18 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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First, the basic rules of PnP are not a penal code, and if you do not follow it, SWAT will suddenly not burst into your home.
Secondly, the rules can sometimes even be heavily modified, it all depends on the group's approach. Some groups like to focus more on combat, while for others combat is absent.
Third, everyone plays the way they like.
I doubt that the group of players who really cares about whether they are implementing the rules exactly is actually large. There were even complaints about the most common homebrews on the forum.
Some people won't be happy if the game isn't 100% RAW or looks like BG2. I suspect that they don't even care if the game will be more enjoyable that way.
Reading the forums, you would get the impression that the game instead of 88% positive (which is a huge amount in the case of a controversial game in EA) should have at most 50-60%. I agree that changing the rules might be good. The question is what change you make and for what purpose. If you change everything about the way combat works You need to do it for the right reasons. By the way, this argument is precisely the reason Solasta is brought up so often here - Larian claimed they had to make this crazy changes because the more faithful way they claim they initially did wasn't fun, and then almost as an answer to a dare In comes Solasta and proves it isn't true and a more faithful version could be extremely fun. The problem I have with Solasta is that I don't think it's a good game. Why don't you think combats are good in Solasta ? I mean, without comparing them to BG3. What's the problem about its rules and its combats mechanics ? The point here is only about combats and the rules implementations...visual effects, story, exploration and so on hasn't been brought. Not so much combat as I generally find Solaste mediocre at best. The fight itself is not scary, but I don't like two things about it: the reaction and the overall speed of the fight. Due to the low budget, I'm not going to criticize the animation (it's not a big problem for me, as I regularly return to old games). Personally, I would rather turn a blind eye to these aspects if the other elements of the game were well made. The game had a clear budget waste problem. I don't know who came up with the idea of creating "cinematic" dialogues or making close-ups on characters but it was a huge mistake. The sound of the characters is also not of the highest order. While I'm not a big fan of PoE, making a game in this style (I'm talking about graphics) would be much better. If you don't have a budget for certain aspects of the game, you don't do it. The game itself would be much better if, instead of wasting the budget, they cut out at least these elements and instead devoted a little more time and resources to refining the title. Unfortunately, the RPG aspects of this game aren't good. I will probably finish the game, but I suspect that in six months I will completely forget about it. Rather, it isnt a title that people will remember in x years
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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Not so much combat as I generally find Solaste mediocre at best.
The fight itself is not scary, but I don't like two things about it: the reaction and the overall speed of the fight. Due to the low budget, I'm not going to criticize the animation (it's not a big problem for me, as I regularly return to old games).
Personally, I would rather turn a blind eye to these aspects if the other elements of the game were well made.
The game had a clear budget waste problem.
I don't know who came up with the idea of creating "cinematic" dialogues or making close-ups on characters but it was a huge mistake.
The sound of the characters is also not of the highest order.
While I'm not a big fan of PoE, making a game in this style (I'm talking about graphics) would be much better.
If you don't have a budget for certain aspects of the game, you don't do it.
The game itself would be much better if, instead of wasting the budget, they cut out at least these elements and instead devoted a little more time and resources to refining the title.
Unfortunately, the RPG aspects of this game aren't good.
I will probably finish the game, but I suspect that in six months I will completely forget about it. Rather, it isnt a title that people will remember in x years I totally agree with a lot of what you say here. It boggles my mind to think they wasted so much resources on terrible voice acting and even worse cutscenes instead of focusing on this game's strong suits
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
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Not so much combat as I generally find Solaste mediocre at best.
The fight itself is not scary, but I don't like two things about it: the reaction and the overall speed of the fight. Due to the low budget, I'm not going to criticize the animation (it's not a big problem for me, as I regularly return to old games).
Personally, I would rather turn a blind eye to these aspects if the other elements of the game were well made.
The game had a clear budget waste problem.
I don't know who came up with the idea of creating "cinematic" dialogues or making close-ups on characters but it was a huge mistake.
The sound of the characters is also not of the highest order.
While I'm not a big fan of PoE, making a game in this style (I'm talking about graphics) would be much better.
If you don't have a budget for certain aspects of the game, you don't do it.
The game itself would be much better if, instead of wasting the budget, they cut out at least these elements and instead devoted a little more time and resources to refining the title.
Unfortunately, the RPG aspects of this game aren't good.
I will probably finish the game, but I suspect that in six months I will completely forget about it. Rather, it isnt a title that people will remember in x years This was just another attempt to understand arguments against a BG3 closer to DnD in it's mechanics. At least I have your personnal preferences about "the reactions" and "the speed" of the fight.
Last edited by Maximuuus; 30/05/21 06:47 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Dec 2020
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Passerby, if you see this, please delete some of your PMs. There is something I'd like to discuss with you privately.
Back on topic, I think the cinematics actually were one of the most common criticisms of Solasta during the entire EA phase. Though by that point, it was likely far too late to scrap things and redo everything given the limited budget they had. It has all the signs of being the one thing that they overstepped on that may have forced them to scale everything else back, kind of like what fully voiced dialogue and ship combat may have done to Pillars of Eternity 2. (I am also of the opinion that BG3's origin system may result in this exact thing happening here as well.)
I think the big focus in people wanting Solasta to succeed is to encourage a better direction for the next game. And/or get WotC to hook them up with a bigger budget and bring them on board to adapting tabletop modules to cRPG format or something. A Waterdeep series of games would be nice. (After all, DOS1 and Kingmaker were not really masterpieces either and were also deeply flawed in their own ways, but DOS2 had an overall improved direction from 1 even if I highly disagree with the overall exploration factor being scaled back, and WotR is set to follow the pattern of being better than Kingmaker in just about every way.)
We also all know that once Larian is done with BG3, there is nothing tying them to continuing with DnD-style games either, when they have their own fanbase that is expecting them to return to their own Divinity series eventually, judging from the amount of complaints in the opposite direction of BG3 not being Divinity enough. And each time they do that, it means 3-4 years that they aren't working on something DnD related. I think a part of the clamor is that the DnD franchise has not had anything resembling actual stability in terms of quality among its video games for a very long time.
On a meta commentary level in regards to these forums though, at least we are largely being civil about things. At least we aren't RPGCodex who basically spent the entire past three days arguing about SJW/Anti-SJW garbage across their Solasta, BG3, AND Wrath of the Righteous threads, purely due to Solasta adding one option at the end of character creation. It shows that there are worse things we can do to pass the time waiting for the next patch.
Last edited by Saito Hikari; 30/05/21 07:26 PM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Nov 2020
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Solasta has deeper and consistent mechanics that works as a whole. It makes you live a journey accross it's world rather than throwing you "fun gameplay" on your face everytime for the sake of it. Despite the size of the project and the custom world, Solasta is far more like BG1/2 than BG3. The only things it lacks is freedom and a deeper story. Which are the two things that made the original saga, imo. BG1 and 2 were never about tactical combat. There are some amazing mods that can increase the challenge, but "out of the box" both games are very easy. What both BG1 and 2 offered instead was the freedom to go and explore the world. Whether you focused on the main quest, or went off the main path - that was up to the player.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: May 2021
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Yeah, or you could read the rules to make your own opinion. It's not how it works in DnD. I'm not playing the TT but I'll be glad to teach the rules to your friends  And you could stand to be a little less sarcastic and hostile to people who don't share your negative opinion on a game? Let's not go there please. Thanks. I am happy to see that someone can be aggressive (or in other cases, downright hostile and insulting) and they are free to, but if someone asks them not to be or points it out, they are told off. I'll be taking my leave of this thread, and probably most of the forums - if this is the sort of moderation to be expected. I'm in agreement with some previous posters.
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Duchess of Gorgombert
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Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
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As this discussion is still repeatedly going back to commenting about other forum members, moderation and so on in spite of numerous requests not to, I think it's time to call it a day.
As there seems to still be some misunderstanding; don't snipe at other people, and don't use other incidents (real or imagined) as an excuse to join in. I'm personally not bothered with "side" of any given debate somebody is on but repeated personal attacks will result in a suspension or ban. If in doubt, don't.
J'aime le fromage.
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