Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General New interview with Sven by Gamespot

This is true. For the most part, anyway. There are certain things that telemetry is enough for, such as encounter difficulty balancing. But for design decisions, more nuance and insight is definitely necessary.

Really? How so?

If you had metadata showing that people love to be shoving peeps around would you remove shove?

How have they demonstrated they don't know how to use data?

The metadata could only show you how much people are using the ability, not exactly why and how much they are enjoying it. That's his entire point, and it's a very legitimate one.
If you give me an overpowered ability I'll use it to get the most benefits from it, especially if I'm in a tight spot, but it doesn't mean I like its existence or how predominant it can be over any other strategy.

I'm with you guys, but I can't help being disappointed that I won't get real reasons for a replay until the patch-after-next (at earliest). Time to start stalking the Steam DB page for a glimpse of patch 6.

I hope the beach surprise isn't Us. Not sure what else it could be, though - maybe

Exactly.

Also, an example that has floated around several times (including recently) is that they erroneously concluded, based on the fact that people don't use Bless very much, that people don't like to use buffs. The actual issue causing people to use Bless infrequently is very likely a combination of the following:
-It is difficult to use Bless in BG3. For no apparent reason, the interface makes it hard to select the targets you want to select.
-BG3 doesn't teach players how to play BG3. If people don't understand the mechanics of the game, they won't understand the benefit of buffs. (Whereas damage is easy to understand.) Similarly, when you do use Bless, the effects aren't displayed well.
-Concentration spells in BG3 are devalued because the game adds more ways to break concentration (e.g. unavoidable damage from surfaces as well as Prone being treated as Incapacitated).
-Easy access to Advantage through high ground and backstab makes it much easier to land attacks, obviating the need for Bless.

They broke Bless with their own bad design and then blamed us for not finding it rewarding.

Telemetry can be useful for investigating some things, but it can never tell you why people behave the way they do - for that, you have to talk to people and actually listen.

Hmm, that would be an absolute slam dunk for Larian's "talk to animals" style. I kind of hope that you have guessed correctly.

Funny thing ...
I dont use the overpowered ability, bcs then the game starts to feel "just the same over and over" pretty quick.
I presume its all about attitude. :P

Telemetry wouldn't tell you that, either.

The game play metadata does not represent me at all, since I do not have the game. And even if I did, how would they ever know that I would like to see an adventure into the City of Brass? Hmmm, that gives me an idea for the EA releases - provide a text feedback page where you can write in your opinions ... oh wait, maybe that is what the forums are for in the first place, so we can not only post suggestions but also so that people can interact with the developers and other players to flesh out ideas? But then why does no one from Larian post in the forums anymore? Agh, once again Argyle is lost in the Mysts of the Unknowing.

You'd have to be able to recognize its existence first.
Which can become harder when you are busy 24/7 defending whatever the devs come up with.

Yeah, funny how that works.

And that its why it was funny.

You know ...
Can you remember when people was telling those, who were/are complaining about litteraly every rule they dont like, to "not use it" ? I can.

And that is exactly core of the joke ...
IF they would listen, IF they would actualy play the game to enjoy it instead of being so powerfull as system allows ... Larian would have exactly the data, they wanted, or more likely they needed ...
Now all Larian can see is millions people showing, flanking, shooting from high ground, Wizzards learning Cleric spells, eating pigheads during the fight, and diping weapons in litteraly any liquid (or plasma in case of fire) they find ...
And many some of those people who do all this, is furious about that they do it, since they "dont want to" ... but as you said, that is nothing Larian could know. :P

Isnt that funny?
I find it extremely hilarious ... but i just love when stubborn person hits his own head.

No, none of that is at all funny. Stop blaming players because Larian is making bad assumptions on their behalf.

That was my point ...
So i feel quite correct right now.

This one is true ...
That would mean they would do it ... they would incerase tutorials, and "onboarding" so people know how to use that ability ...

And then their data would tell them that people are still not using the ability.
What conclusion would be next?

Since this is quite vague argument ... i answer in simmilar tone by saing:

And then their data would tell them that people are still not using the ability.
What conclusion would be next?

Come on, even you simply must admit that sooner or later someone in Larian would need to admit that people simply dont like their abilities.

It may seem that way, but since your and mine conslusion are same ... i dare to say that im not.

I could say the same with rewerted roles.
Its allways easier to blame, then to admit misstake isnt it?

Mmmmm... I do like cookies. 😄

No seriously. Do you guys enjoy all the fighting and negativity and bashing one another and their ideas? Does it make you feel better?

I think maybe a few ought to take a few steps back and remember it's just a game. If you aren't having fun, why are you wasting time on it.

Of course I can remember the good old "If you don't like it don't use it". How could I not? It never really went out of style and year after year keeps confirming itself and one of the stupidest, most shortsighted arguments in existence when debating balance in a game.

Oh ok, so it's not just me.

GM4Him > I would say that i dont enjoy bashing good ideas any more than i enjoy supporting bad ideas ...
Answer for both is: Not at all. O_o

Its not allways about negativity. :-/

Yes, "it's not Larian's fault that they might be drawing completely erroneous conclusions from the data. It's yours: you people who dislike some of the gameplay decisions. You should have played the game hundreds of times while willingly not using various systems in order to affect Larian's telemetry. Systems that, because they are so baked into gameplay (e.g., height & prevalence of surfaces causing lost concentration), make playing without them frustrating and unenjoyable because you're playing against the game instead of playing it."

How they handled Bless is a good example.
The data said players were not using Bless much. Their interpretation: "Bless is boring and people want fireworks" <- this was said during an interview.
In the tabletop Bless is one of the best spells in the game, something you can use from level 1 up to level 20 since +2.5 to attack rolls and saves is universally powerfull.

If you would need to play the game hunderts of times, to outweight the other camp ...
Maybe you should simply submit to majority. :P

Or even better, start create mods.

Yes i have read that before ...

Its talking about how strong Advantage is ...
And about how hard (actualy impossible as the post states) would be to get rid of it ...

How exacly is that anyhow relevant to data, wich are only telling us how many people is using the rule? O_o
I mean, i can imagine you using it as counterargument, since the stronger rule is ... the stronger must be your despite of that rule, for not using it ...

You stating that im incorrect, it should be easy for you to tell me in what.

//edit:
I get option to have advantage > i dont want it > i dont use it > data tells Larian that i didnt use it.
Larian thinks i dont know about it > they tell me more obviously > i dont want it > i dont use it > data tells Larian that i didnt use it.
Larian thinks that the bonus is not strong enough for me > they buff it up > i dont want it > i dont use it > data tells Larian that i didnt use it.

It seem like model simple enough. O_o

I simply cant find any other conclusion ...
Either Larian in the end finds out that i dont want it > i dont use it.
Or they find out that im one of thousand players ... and therefore minority and they dont care.