Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Originally Posted by Bumblephist
It sounds like what he's really saying is that high strength characters are game breakingly overpowered and need to be nerfed IMMEDIATELY! Maybe cap Strength at 14 or 15 during character creation.

None of my non-strength based characters have been able to throw people around and usually can't even get a successful "Shove" going. It's just a wasted turn so I don't use Shove. I'll throw grease bottles though.

They could nerf Lae'Zel, too, then. Maybe drop her strength to 15 and bump her Con or Dex. (should probably put it into Charisma to be honest. She could use a boost there)

The issue isn't with strength or even the concept of the mechanic, its the implementation. Base 5e doesn't have bonus action shoving. And not on this ridiculous level. And it is super easy to go into stealth right now and 100 percent shove people. Heck, a MAGE HAND, a cantrip that is meant to not harm people, can shove Goblins off cliffs with 100 percent chance. You could beat this game purely through Mage Hand, and only mage hand.
Capping strength would be going at the wrong part of the problem, changing the shove mechanic, which is already homebrew, would be the solution. Making it an action, make it not 100 percent chance with stealth, and make the distance scale with strength and less extreme, and it will be a much more reasonable mechanic and in fact could be a fun bit of homebrew.
Also, personally, Laezel's stat spread is fine. If anything, if I had to move stats around, I'd dump her wisdom and maybe her dex by a few points to give her some intellect so she can be a serviceable Eldritch Knight without the headband, always felt like a better subclass due to what I know about Githyanki fighters.
As it is right now, it is overpowered and is breaking and obsoleting the other systems.


Based on the DS:OSII post mortem video on the Game Developers Conference Youtube channel Larian puts that kind of stuff in there intentionally for the people who would have fun with it, for example on PvP and Co-op and people who are just looking for silly things they can have fun exploiting. I don't see how it's a problem for anyone who role-plays their character (and rolls a character as they'd really play it). I don't usually play a fighter for my main char but even if I did it wouldn't bother me if someone else played their high-strength character as a shove-and-throw character. Is this just about not having anything that isn't 5th Edition in the game? Because if that's the case then I suspect some people are setting themselves up for disappointment.

I also can't get hide to work the way some people seem to get it to work. I can't even get away with hiding behind the chimney on a rooftop or being on the other side of the rooftop ridge. If the enemy even sniffs in my direction it usually breaks my concealment and then they start lobbing acid/fire/grease bombs at me and buffing their friends. I believe the engine needs better (3d) line-of-site calculations. If an Ogre(?) is at ground level and I'm hiding on the other side of a rooftop ridge it shouldn't be able to see me but they usually can if the ground level distance is within their vision cone.

And I haven't had any better luck with Mage Hand. Does Mage Hand use the Strength of the caster? I'd love to be able to use Mage Hand to clobber certain enemies but I can't. I can't even use it to pick up a bottle (antitoxin?) that's on top of a mantle in a certain dungeon. In fact I can't get to that bottle any way I try even though I can clear the rest of the stuff from the top of that fireplace mantle. But I can break it with a range attack. But that's beside the point. Why care if someone else can beat the game using a tactic you wouldn't use? Let them have their fun. The relevant question is: "Can the human at the keyboard beat the game by playing the way they want?" The game isn't being written for any one of us nor just one group of player. The GDC videos show that Larian wants people with different play styles to have fun their own way. That's a good thing.

On the other hand: Mage Hand not being able to bring me stuff is a problem. Items that say "Unknown Name" (or whatever it was) when I mouse over them is a problem; a cosmetic problem, sure, but it's going to look bad if it's in the released version. Placeholder graphics showing in inventories is a problem. Being seen when it shouldn't be possible to see me and I'm not moving is a problem. Having to climb over boxes and down to get to the space between the wall and the boxes just to open a barrel next to them that I should obviously be able to reach without moving is a problem. I'm guessing the container objects have a "front" that indicates the place the player needs to stand to interact with the container and the dev placing the objects isn't paying attention to how the objects are placed. There have even been bookcases that aren't accessible from the front of the bookcase; the game wants you to walk to the other side of the dungeon wall behind the bookcase. That's a problem. I won't even get into the "stickiness" of the character chaining for party management. Dynamic movement of tails, hair, and dead bodies going "wacky" and flip flopping all over the place is a problem. The occasional "two overlapping health bars" is a problem. The animated dialog scenes with chars standing on top of each other and items obstructing the camera view is a problem. The dialog camera looking at nothing is a problem. There was a problem with weight management where if you sold a stack of 5 items that weighed one pound each (so 5 pounds for the stack) it only reduced the weight you were carrying by one pound. And the list goes on. When this next update drops I'm going to make a bigger effort to open more bugs reports for problems.


Anyway, I still don't understand what the problem is with having things in the game that other people would use that I wouldn't. It just needs to be winnable when I play my way at some difficulty setting even if it's "old man with bad eyes" mode. It shouldn't have to be "my way or the highway".