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Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by Abits
I think this mod discussion is very theoretical at this point.

Now I am a very big mod enthusiast. I use mods for pretty much every pc game I play. And I think every mod user who uses mods as extensively as I do knows without any understanding of how to make mods that there is a big difference between Bethesda games and anything else.

As for the reason why that is, because I have no real understanding of how mod creation works, I can only guess. I assume it is both because of their popularity and the ease of mod creation. There are games with easy to make mods (like mount and blade) and there are games which are very popular (resident evil 2 remake) and hence have many mods, but I think only Bethesda engines enjoy both popularity and ease of use.

Moreover, Bethesda games creation kit and other tools allow the creators much more than skins and textures. This flexibility and ability to change almost every aspect of the game is pretty much unique and I never seen any other game engine which allows this amount of tinkering.

As for Baldur's Gate 3, although we already have a very active mod community (which is great news), I still think this is very early to say how flexible the game will be with mods, and how extensive the possible editions to the game will be.

And as a mod user who really don't know much about how to create mods, my default is to check out the other Larian game with similar engine.

Looking at the divinity original sin 2 mod site on the Nexus the situation is actually better than what I remembered. There are some gameplay altering mods, nothing major (for example, I couldn't find a mod to remove dos2 strange armour system that many people complained about) but still impressive. I also saw at least one quest mod and some new models. Which means it is possible to edit models, but the very small selection either indicates lack of interest of the mod community or hard process, don't know which.
To summarize, judging by dos2 mod page, there is a potential here. Of course it doesn't necessarily mean it will be the same for Bg3, could be better and could be worse, but still a nice way to try and predict how the Bg3 mod scene will look like.

It is also important to note that if it wasn't clear, it seems nowhere close to Bethesda modding in terms of options. It is also important to note that even before release BG3 seems to be much more popular than DOS2 so this message that draw in more modders.

Now I agree with kanisatha and others here that a game should be good on its own and mods should only be an extra treat that enhances the game and improve its shelf life (like mods are for Baldur's Gate 2 for example). But I have to admit that if Baldur's Gate 3 will be modable to a satisfactory extent I will be very happy with it.

Some things I hope for when I say satisfactory -
- a possibility to add more classes, subclasses and race that will work well.
- some changes to the gameplay which will allow for a more faithful DND experience.
- more armors and clothing (so far what we have is very limited and is using game assets)
- more silly cool mods (we already have some of those like the wings mod)

The problem with modern modding -
Even if the modding community will be super big and the game will be very easy to mod, there is one major thing that can't be easily modded - story and characters. Even if technically it will be possible, creating major story changes need voice acting and scripting in a very advanced level. And this is an aspect Larian can't fuck up on or we will be stuck with great modable game with bad story.

So far I was very optimistic in this comment, but now I'm gonna be a buzzkill and say that
A) I don't think the game will allow extensive modding, at least not extensive enough as to offer everyone the experience they want from BG 3. Day night circle, rtwp, and even a reaction system are things that come to mind. If anyone can show me otherwise I'll be happy to be proven wrong.
B) if the story and characters of this game won't be good enough, no amount of modding will be enough to fix this game for me. Dedicated fanbase can save a game (vampire bloodlines) but only if it has enough potential.

Custom Campaigns, if its possible people will make there own stories. Example would be NwN1 & 2.
Oh yeah totally forgot about that one. Super Important.


Maybe straight up a basic map template that you can modify to make it easier to make more content,quests, implement characters etc. and hopefully with a way to link it to the main campagin? Like you add a mod, you define you want it to be anchored with the campaign and you just choose the place in the map where they are supposed to be linked together.

Obviously that depends on the final structure of the game but MODs did a lot for BG to survive that long. Larian already stated they really will be counting on mods to flourish once the game is done so not sure why this conversation shifted so much into modding.

Last edited by virion; 04/07/21 02:54 PM.

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@OP:

1) Add a quiver with limited slots to our characters. The ammunitions in the quiver can be used in combats. Others are in the Inventory.

I beg you not to. Managing ammo in older games for the sake of it is just annoying if it's not coupled with a reasonable attrition system per map (xcom2 with managing ammo left in clip+ cooldowns) or on the scale of the whole game (any survival game really).
Maybe an " Infinite quiver" with limited ammo " Per combat" would be a thing? Promoting this way multiple roles/actions from archers apart from spamming their arrows?


3) New Larian IP / video game

Apart from what you listed I would add combat speed adjustment with "Simultanous AI " as #1 solution.
a) If we have 2 enemies acting , then 1 ally, 4 enemies etc then each group of enemies can act ON THE SAME TIME.

I had comments regarding this stating it could be too chaotic but I think it comes from the fact you don't expect it.

You can have :
Enemies who will act have a red circle under their feets blink red for a second and their targets can be highlighted in yellow.
Their all make their action.
You have a bit more explicit combat log that would be visible by default and you could hide it/show it on click instead of being hidden by default and having to make it appear in options.

small note : I had this already happen to me. My game lagged for a pico-second and when it unfroze a group of enemies acted on the same time. I didn't expect it so my first reaction was
"wtf just hapenned". But as soon as I traced back the attacks to my attackers I was like "oh ok, so he shot an arrow, that guy launched a spell and this one is looking for a ladder".

The goblin camp would be so much more enjoyable with this faster paced combat style.

b)Animations can be at least 20% / 30% faster for both enemies and us regardless of the AI thing.


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Originally Posted by virion
@OP:

1) Add a quiver with limited slots to our characters. The ammunitions in the quiver can be used in combats. Others are in the Inventory.

I beg you not to. Managing ammo in older games for the sake of it is just annoying if it's not coupled with a reasonable attrition system per map (xcom2 with managing ammo left in clip+ cooldowns) or on the scale of the whole game (any survival game really).
Maybe an " Infinite quiver" with limited ammo " Per combat" would be a thing? Promoting this way multiple roles/actions from archers apart from spamming their arrows?

I totally disagree that managing ammo in the old games was annoying. It was one of those things that makes the games more consistent and immersive.

But anyway considering that ammunitions are unlimited in BG3, I only had in mind quiver for special ammunitions (+1/+2/+3 and surfaces arrows).
I didn't explained it well.

Originally Posted by virion
3) New Larian IP / video game

Apart from what you listed I would add combat speed adjustment with "Simultanous AI " as #1 solution.
a) If we have 2 enemies acting , then 1 ally, 4 enemies etc then each group of enemies can act ON THE SAME TIME.

I had comments regarding this stating it could be too chaotic but I think it comes from the fact you don't expect it.

You can have :
Enemies who will act have a red circle under their feets blink red for a second and their targets can be highlighted in yellow.
Their all make their action.
You have a bit more explicit combat log that would be visible by default and you could hide it/show it on click instead of being hidden by default and having to make it appear in options.

small note : I had this already happen to me. My game lagged for a pico-second and when it unfroze a group of enemies acted on the same time. I didn't expect it so my first reaction was
"wtf just hapenned". But as soon as I traced back the attacks to my attackers I was like "oh ok, so he shot an arrow, that guy launched a spell and this one is looking for a ladder".

The goblin camp would be so much more enjoyable with this faster paced combat style.

b)Animations can be at least 20% / 30% faster for both enemies and us regardless of the AI thing.

I may be wrong because I didn't play it much yet, but I think it's how it works in Wasteland 3.
It is a bit chaotic and sometimes it's hard to understand what happen... BUT it increase a lot the flow of combats and chaos should definitely be a thing in battles. As you said with a good user interface / logbook or anything else, I guess it could be cool.


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Originally Posted by <Redacted>
<Redacted>

Agree.
Anything else would be going the Bethesda route. i.e. ship broken games and let the community fix and patch them. And I don't think anyone want Larian to turn in to Bethesda.

Last edited by Raze; 16/03/22 08:30 AM. Reason: deleted forum account
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Originally Posted by virion
@OP:
Managing ammo in older games for the sake of it is just annoying if it's not coupled with a reasonable attrition system per map (xcom2 with managing ammo left in clip+ cooldowns) or on the scale of the whole game (any survival game really).

Oh you mean just like having a thousand homebrew gimmicks that create redundancies and trivialize all D&D System and Mechanics just for the sake of it? Interesting...

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There is a discussion about fallout 3 Vs fallout 1-2 elsewhere on the forum which I think is very relevent here as well. I think that say what you want about Bethesda, in that regard they did a pretty good job, and since fallout 3 is completely different in perspective from the previous titles I think it's no small feat to nail the presentation.

Right now Baldur's Gate 3 has some aspects that reminds the previous instalments, but I really wish we had more. I think music is also something to consider here


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Originally Posted by Abits
Right now Baldur's Gate 3 has some aspects that reminds the previous instalments, but I really wish we had more.

Could you please give us your thought here ?

If I have to think about it :
- DND but 20 years later
- The Forgotten Realms but customized a lot (physics, time, "rules of the world")
- 1 book about Gorion, but I probably have missed other things
- Dreams but not for everyone
- A worldmap with pins on it but useless (for now?) in BG3
- A datamined companion (not yet in the EA)

What else do you have in mind that looks like real /clear references to the old games ?

Last edited by Maximuuus; 08/07/21 02:20 PM.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Abits
Right now Baldur's Gate 3 has some aspects that reminds the previous instalments, but I really wish we had more.

Could you please give us your thought here ?

If I have to think about it :
- DND but 20 years later
- The Forgotten Realms but customized a lot (physics, time, "rules of the world")
- 1 book about Gorion, but I probably have missed other things
- Dreams but not for everyone
- A worldmap with pins on it but useless (for now?) in BG3
- A datamined companion (not yet in the EA)

What else do you have in mind that looks like real /clear references to the old games ?

Few notes about
bhaal in the hag's cabin
, mind flayers, and that's pretty much it. Can't think of anything else on the fly. Probably few minor easter eggs. Not mentioning anything combat related or not cause it's 5th edition vs 2nd to begin with.


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I think the entire prologue sequence is very reminiscent of Baldur's Gate.

The exploration of this middle of nowhere map with small encounters is also very Baldur's Gate like (specifically Baldur's Gate 1 if you want to be specific). It is very limited at the moment, but i cannot deny I feel it Very much, and because this sense of exploration that many games tried to emulate but few succeeded is very well done. Again, right now the number of encounters is pretty low I think they are much higher quality than say something you would find in Skyrim typical roaming.

There are other smaller things like the portraits of our characters or certain interactions.

I don't think this is nearly enough, but it's not nothing


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
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Some good points in here already, I’ll add one visual one that bugs me but in the grand scheme probably doesn’t bother many others…

Dirt.
Or lack of.
Everyone is in such shiny glossy armour/clothing, despite being kidnapped, crash landing, slaying monsters left right and centre.

So yeah, dirt, blood, wear and tear. I’m not after hyper realism or grimdark, just a tattered version of armour.

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