Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Ticking clock needs to have no obvious solutions

At the very start of the game you're giving a ticking clock with an unknown amount of time on it in the form of the parasite. Your character has no way of knowing when they will turn, and them turning not only kills them, but also makes them a danger to everyone around them that's far greater than any of the stakes established in the opening. Goblins have absolutely nothing on a quartet of Illithid showing up.

This is entirely fine in and of itself, but the character is then given very clear and obvious breadcrumbs to follow to resolve that ticking clock, which require you to functionally ignore the entire game if you want to pursue them in a realistic fashion.

Absolutely nobody is going to concern themselves with a refugee crisis when at any moment they could turn into an illithid and turn the refugee camp into a new illithid hive, and, importantly, they know exactly where they need to go to potentially prevent that eventuality.

Very little needs to be changed to fix this. The first is to remove any reference to anyone having seen Githyanki nearby, and to make the implication that nobody has ever seen gith before the crash. This ensures that while the ticking clock is stressful and threatening, there's no clear way to resolve it, and the player can decide how their character would go about trying to deal with a looming threat with hypothetical resolutions (greater restoration, gith shenanigans) but no clear path toward any of those solutions because they don't know where they would find a powerful enough healer, or make contact with the Githyanki.

One bonus to this method is that it transforms the mission from "go find the gith" to "do your best to find something to help you, while waiting for the gith who were chasing your ship to show up" which actively encourages you to stay in the immediate vicinity, and involve yourself in the local concerns. The gith patrol can still trigger identically at the same location, gameplay doesn't need to meaningfully change, but there's a big difference between the player knowing to progress the plot they need to go to X, and the character knowing that in order to save their life they need to go to X.

The goblin breadcrumb is fine, except that once you've learned about the healer you don't have any realistic dialogue options to try to bribe your way in to see them, and murdering your way in probably works mechanically because video game, but murdering their guards is a completely unrealistic way for someone to approach a doctor.

I should note that the druids might hold a breadcrumb that resolves some of this narrative tension, but the druids are established by the opening text to be so concerned about some goblins killing them all that they're going to do a ritual to seal their grove, and one of them is killed by goblins on a scouting mission. If they have anyone powerful enough to reasonably be thought to be useful, the game needs to much more heavily foreshadow that akin to the goblin's reference to their super healer. Druids are potentially useful, but druids that are terrified of goblins are very much not.

TL:DR The characters (not the player) need to hit a brick wall in dealing with their infection in order to justify literally anything else they do, and it takes way too much time to reach that brick wall, assuming it exists at all, to allow meaningful engagement with the multitude of other things that are going on, or to even justify some of the fundamental narrative tension between NPC's.

Very fine point. I remember back when I played Divine Divinity, when I was very new to cRPG and clueless about how to play that game (and my English was still pretty poor too), there was this sense of having no idea what to do and where to go. I just wandered the whole maps, exploring, talking to new NPCs, killing monsters, trying to follow every lead I could get a firm grip on, trying to reach unexplored areas, etc. Eventually it worked out and I reached the end of the game after quite a while. I must say, the experience was rather magical. It was the summer holiday and I essentially forgot everything about life and was absorbed into the game.

I for one would prefer Larian to maintain the "not holding your hand" approach. You're just left somewhere in the game world with very little clue as to where you should go next or what you should do next. It just feels good when you finally stumble upon the next major clue without seeing it coming.

The thing with doing this, however, is that the so-called "challenge rating" of encounters probably need to be balanced in a different manner than they are in DOS and DOS2. Playing DOS and DOS2 you get a pretty clear idea the intended route that you should take looks like, thanks to the not-so-subtle enemy levels sticking to enemy names, and how level difference affects combat. To allow players the freedom to roam and the flexibility to go to different areas and can still make decent progress, combat has to be designed in such a way that it is possible for the party to beat "higher level" encounters, even though it may be tough. Of course, encounters that are meant to be very tough should still be very tough, but you know what I mean. One nice thing about the old BG games is that you have a lot of freedom - at least during the early game - to pursue a wide range of quests and go to a lot of different areas. The quests are not on the same level of difficulty, but by "playing smart" you can beat difficult encounters which could be said to be meant for a higher level.

Part of the issue is that the gameplay and plot disagree on what the rails should look like. The plot leads you straight from the start into a fight with a party of level 5 enemies while you're still level 2. It isn't easy to get there, and you have to dodge past 1000 interesting plot hooks to do it, so the gameplay wants you to explore wherever you want, the plot wants you to die horribly.

If you go anywhere other than where the plot (a plot with a ticking clock measured potentially in seconds) is telling you to go, the strongest creature in the fight has half the hp of weakest enemy in the plot fight.

I really don't feel that strongly about any of the points you are making here, frankly.

For a start, I have no idea what makes you think that the Githyanki patrol is presented as "an obvious solution". If anything it seems to me that it's presented as one out of multiple options (and one several of your companions express open skepticism about, on top of that) and it turns out to be one of the most misleading ones, since the outcomes range from "You get nothing, good day sir!" to being brutally stomped. At no point it turns out to be an "obvious solution", just a false option.

Second, "We shouldn't concern ourselves with the refugees is ALREADY a point that pretty much all your companions aside from Wyll make to you, and in most cases unless the player deliberately chooses otherwise you somewhat indulge in doing something about it just as a tangent to what at that given moment is your main goal ("Find and meet the druid, ask for his help").

About the goblins, you are offered MULTIPLE alternate options to infiltrate their camp that do not involve massacring the guards. That aside, the implication is not that if you kill the guards "everything is peachy", but that you can infiltrate the temple with its occupant unaware of the battle you just had on the outside.

Last but not least, the characters DO "hit a brick wall in dealing with their infection", given that every single path to a cure turns out to be a false lead and the only thing keeping you alive past the first two days is the peculiar nature of your tadpoles.

Well, that's a different issue altogether, isn't it? One that incidentally we were already addressing in another topic.

The ticking clock is a tricky one to balance in a game that doesn't seemingly show the progression of time.
The other "issue" is that Ceremorphosis technically reaches the point of no return after 1hr and the transformation into the mind flayer physically takes up to 7 days (going by D&D lore), so if your character knew any of this, you would know it's a lost cause the moment you step off the ship.

But you know, where's the fun in that and hope dies last right... Plus the moment after a few hours and you haven't lost your mind, the more emboldened you might become right?

That said, if I was to be picky, I would say that the Origin characters such as Shadowheart and Lae'zel are a little too easily convinced about sleeping. They should either be more vehemently against this, willing to carry on until collapsing with exhaustion, perhaps even leaving your company until you find them again, confused but still alive and more reasonable to not rushing around like a loon. Or you should have dialogue options that convinces them that we have gone beyond the usual time of no return already, so something else might be going on, because normally, going to sleep for several hours is a big no no!!

I mean this is a very big deal, it's an almost immediate death sentence and you should be stressed out of your skull about sorting this pronto.

As for the Gith confrontation, I can understand Lae'zel wanting to rush to her kin as she beleives they can purge her (and hopefully you too), that too should have been a chance for the Gith to state that you are beyond saving, that it has been too long already and want you purged. That however also leans in to the issue of difficulty with this encounter if you rush over there.

In fact the only encounter that makes sense is the healer at the Druid grove and her rather "extreme cure".

So in essence, I appreciate there is a balance here between story and game mechanics, but to recap, I just feel Larian hasn't made the first Act, from beach onwards either stressful enough (with dlalogues between characters), or set the scene so that everyone you meet is already questioning the tadpole issue because technically they should already be "dead" (as in mind taken over), thus it becomes a conundrum and less of a time issue.

As is (at least as I remember it and it's been a while - I plan on replaying once Patch 5 drops), it feels a weird hybrid of "we must hurry, but oh I guess we can rest and take our time too, but let's hurry", all whilst not showing any real passage of time or having the characters discuss the passage of time other than the odd cinematic should you long rest often enough (again something that the story set-up does not lend itself too).

I never even had feeling that there are some thicking clock ...
Yes, everyone is talking about "maybe dont have much time left" ... yet, by the same breath, they all agree that they "feel completely fine" wich they obviously should not. O_o

I was kinda scared first time i have seen that sick evening ...
But except that, i honestly dont see litteraly any reason to rush. :-/

Yeah precisely, it's all a bit, is it an issue or isn't it? Does the story want us to rush or not? It's kinda like "look at all this stuff to explore and do", yet by the same token "oh but rush or you're dead, probably, but maybe not". As a result I feel the beginning of Act1 is at conflict with itself a little. It also feels as though Shadowheart is too much like herself when we first meet her at the doorway (at least until P5). I appreciate she is wary of you, but she should be beside herself with worry, possibly a little more vulnerable than in her normal state due to the "time pressure" that should be at the forefront of each of the Origin characer's minds until the situation changes.

So again, Shadowheart could be a little more stressed when you first meet here and then "if" you sleep she calms and reverts to dark sarcastic self one she realises something is different to the normal process. Provides insight into the character and helps the player understand better that perhaps we don't needto rush rush, yet we still want a cure.

It's not a big thing for me, I just think the story doesn't fully commit in EA to the danger you're in supposed to be in vs time.

I never saw the gith as the obvious solution. The interaction with Lae'zel makes it very clear, that gith are not friendly towards strangers. Just because Lae'zel thinks, it's the best solution, doesn't mean, you have to agree. At one point, Wyll thought, that auntie Ethel could help us... look, how that turns out (if you take Ethels offer).
In my first playthrough, I focused on finding Halsin and therefore by default helped the refugees. I talked to every person possible and looked for possible cures in every direction. I even did Abdirak penance, because he was a cleric and maybe he could help. So imo the game encourages you, to try everything out and not just run straight to the gith, because a not very trustworthy (OK, probably more trustworthy than the others, at least she is honest about her xenophobia) companion said so.

This is going to be annoying perhaps but I can't see a way to really address this without quoteblocks. I regret this.
You could make the argument that people would stay, especially with an arch-druid around, presicely because of that; kill the new illithid while they're weak and disorientated. There's no reason anyone would stand and gawk while the transformation happened either, and the new monsters would be killed mid 'birth' if the druids can't do anything.


I disagree, I don't think anything needs to be changed. We've been told you have about 7 days to 'cure' the parasite (via the spell Restoration iirc) however talking to the fishermen if you save them from the trapped illithid mentions that it's days 3 or 4 by boat to Baldur's Gate, the only nearby large town which might have a healer capable of helping. If you consider your speed on foot you won't make it because by the 3rd-5th day you'll struggle to walk.
That's before the goblins are considered; the tiefling refugees are not from the local area, they were travelling and got attacked. They can't move on because of the goblins attacking local settlements such as the local village, and travellers. If there's enough to stop such a large group of people, that's a massive figurative and literal roadblock to anyone who needs to get to Baldur's Gate ASAP. This isn't even factoring in there are gnolls that are at least friendly to the goblins due to the Absolute.
Archdruids are (going off my memory) very powerful healers, so it's hardly a stretch to try and meet with the archdruid-which means dealing with the goblins.

I think the Githyanki are okay as they are; they managed to track a ship that hopped planes repeatedly, I don't think it's a stretch they tracked it down quickly when it crashed. That they're going around seemingly killing anything suggests they might not help, Laezel (your only interaction with them) is not exactly gregarious, and when they are finally met, that hope of being cured is briskly squashed and, barring specific dialogues, they try to kill you. That Laezel is also confused by this doesn't reassure.

I appreciate that they actually have a moment where characters say to you "What is going on, we should be suffering symptoms now" and Laezel panics at being ill before Halsin goes "The parasite is magically suspended"

I never get this impresion either to be honest ...

From my point of view, your companions have no idea how much time you have ...
So far, they are feeling okey, so they all agree that there is no need to spint until you will fall to the ground exhaused with pink foam around the mouth, as your own blood will be boiling ...
Yet, they keep reminding you, bcs no matter if you have hours, days, or weeks ... it still should be your top priority, and they would rather resolve this sooner than later.

It might seem confused, but to me that is exactly the feeling we should get from that situation ...
Let me remind you that our character, and all companions was just abducted (we dont even know how much time passed BTW), and implanted with alien parasite that is eating their brain, dragged through hells, and spitted in middle of battlefield for two groups, where one of them are on the edge of civil war ... i believe that some sort of confusion should be understandable.