Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General shadowheart in patch 5

Not common for the temple of Selune, unless you mean she was kidnapped by Shar and brainwashed to do something. Though also, I would not be surprised if there was a zealot following Selune thinking this was a good thing to do.

You realise until the update Astarion had the most lines by a 100 more than her, right? Why didn't you say anything then lol. Plus right now she's probably the most popular character overall because her and astarion have the most fan art and discussions about them in social media and her and Gail were the most romanced characters. All of then will get a lot of updates. You cant even get to the creche which is going to be full of Lazael scenes and Astarion has like 4 more voiced dialogues for the 1st act that haven't been released yet.

I'm actually really worried now that Larian is trying to force Shadowheart on us in an attempt to make her as 'iconic' as characters like Morrigan or Solas in the Dragon Age series, and the perception of the rest of the cast is going to suffer big time for it in the long run as a result. She seems to get so much more focus than the rest of the party members, which is quite a feat when pretty much all of the companions are really over the top even by cRPG standards to begin with. At this point, I don't think anyone would really be surprised if it turns out that she has to reluctantly backstab you later in the game, or as part of an ending stinger leading into a sequel hook.

The problem is that compared to the two DA characters I mentioned, you can already expect something like this from a mile away, because you end up learning a lot of special things about Shadowheart almost immediately (her being a cleric of Shar and possessing a strange box/cube thing).

Also, the idea that they are changing the characters based on the community's perception of them is a bit worrying too. Shadowheart didn't really need to get that much kinder, I think she was already fine as is.

If someone is gonna betray you it's gonna be gale he fits the stereotype of being a manipulative mage who people are too dumb to see he is using them.

From what I've heard of his backstory he has a severe case of "better than thou" going on.

IIRC datamining revealed that Gale...

If Gale does that, he will be one of my favorites - as long as it’s written well. I think he thinks he boinked the Goddess of the weave; however, seeing that he appears to be linked to the shadweave - I think Shar is also manipulating him and Shadowheart.

I think, one of the subsets of BG3 is Shar again trying to rebuild the shadow weave.

edit: I am assuming the ruins Gale went to had something to do with the destroyed Shade Enclave of Thultanthar.

Has no one considered that Shadowheart may be the person in the Unclaimed Book that you find in Jergal's Library? She was a faithful servant of Shar who died and Kelemvor took pity on her because Shar never showed up to claim her?

The sturdily-bound story of a cleric of Shar whose soul was never claimed from the City of Judgment.

In life, her service had been impeccable. Daily did she devote herself to the Lady of Loss. Daily did she free herself from tyranny of memory. All, in time, was lost to her - her relations, her preferences, even her own name. Upon the altar of her devotion placed she the ultimate offering: her emptied mind.

And when she died, when she awoke in death and found herself standing in the pale and faded City of Judgment, she waited for the Lady of Loss to retrieve her. A million souls and more passed her in colourless gusts, but no hand materialised in her hand, no voice whispered instruction in her ear; no guidance proffered itself from the bleached and barren sky. Time immaterial time, passed around her like air, coming and going. And still, the goddess did not come for her devotee.

Kelemvor pitied her, as much as the Lord of the Dead is able, but could not intervene. This cleric of the Lady of Loss, unclaimed despite her worthiness, might yet have one more lesson to learn: That not of forgetting, but being forgotten.


My theory: Shadow grew up and was a cleric of Selune. Her fond memories are of Selune, not Shar. She lived in Moonhaven in 1371. At some point, she betrayed Selune and joined the Dark Justiciars. They butchered her people in Moonhaven and sacked the temple. Halsin, Roa and the Harpers and druids united and fought the Dark Justiciars back to Moonrise and killed Ketheric and Shadowheart. After death, Shadowheart was forgotten by Shar and Kelemvor took pity. During the 2nd Sundering, Shadowheart was reborn, just like many other gods...like the Dead 3... and maybe Melisan.

But yeah, they REALLY need to fix her appearance. She has Shar written all over her. It's kinda like, um duh. You think we DIDN'T know you were a Sharrite?

Gale should also point it out, if no one else does, when he first meets her. A woman with shadows for eyes, deep as a dark lake, and a symbol of Shar as her spell focus on her head and all over her armor.

And then, in the grove. Looking at the murals. There you see the symbol of Shar on a mans helmet. Say, that looks like Shadows symbol on ALL her gear.

Gale has no problems in keeping information from the PC, so it's not surpising that he would keep his discoveries to himself. The "shadows for eyes" might be him giving a hint to SH without telling on her.

My guess about Shadowheart is that she

Not just Gale, but the PC should also have the option in some dialog to point this out. Far too often it seems to me that Larian does not give the PC a fair range of options to voice in dialogs, yet again a way in which the custom PC is shafted compared with the origin characters.

As for these possible stories about what's behind SH, I'll say it again: If ONE of our companions has a deep, dark secret past whereby they are not who they appear to be, that's fine, even possibly interesting to explore. If ALL of them are that type of character, that is just lame and pathetic and evidence of bad writing and poor game design.

Are you perhaps telling this to me?

I always said that Shadow constantly knocks down my dialogues with Astarion, I don't care how many lines he has, I don't see or hear them, because the game chooses Shadow's dialogues. I talked about this even before patch 5. To hear Astarion's dialogues, I had to literally go through the game only with him. But Shadow interrupts not only his dialogues, but everyone in general. If I take her in party, then the game chose only her. And yes I dont like it. For Astarion they really added 4 new scenes (they alrdy released if u dont know), but they are not related to the plot at this stage in any way. Shadow's scenes are already connected not only with her personal mission, but also with the main plot.

As I have already said, I am not annoyed by Shadow herself as a character, I am annoyed by her presentation, I want to reduce her importance if I take her to the group. Every companion should be important, this is not the case with her.

For example:

if I take Gale, Lae, Astarion it's 50/50 for all (reactions to dialogues, expressing an opinion)

if I take Lae, Astarion, Shadow it's 90% for Shadow and 10% for others

Now u get it? It's great that you love Shadow, but she's not my favorite, so I want her importance to be the same as others, and not more than that.

Or players just check her stats with N and see what diety the cleric worships. There's no way to stop it being 'spoiled' though I agree that it would be better if the player at least had a "...and what was the secret you were going to tell me?" sort of reply when she tells you she's sharrian.

You speak as a player, not as the character you are playing for. Not everyone know the symbolism of the Shar, but I believe that it should be obvious to a cleric.

Maybe you the player can find out easily, but characters don't have access to one another's sheets. If they want to give her the cool Sharran armor, then let it be one of the rewards for completeing her companion quest.

The point is that her equipment is a dead give away, or should be, to the characters of Faerun who should be familiar with a VERY common goddess. It would be like someone showing up at your door with a cross on their chest, one on their forehead, one on each shoulder, etc. and then later you are like, "Wait what? You're a Christian? Whoa! I never would have known. Holy cow! Mind blown! I never saw that one coming."

Very common? How common can an underground doomsday cult be?

Um...VERY! Shar is the goddess of darkness and the caverns of Faerun as well as a neutral evil GREATER deity of Faerun. She is the twin of Selune. She was the creator of the Shadow Weave which is the counterpart and attack on the Weave. According to one of the most ancient myths of the creation of the world and the heavens, after the universe and its crystal sphere were created by Ao, Shar coalesced from the primordial essence, alongside her twin Selune. They were considered 2 of the oldest gods in Faerun and they've been at war for countless millenia.

So yes, I would think everyone would know Shar and her symbols about as much as everyone in our world would know about Satan and his demons. Even in more recent history in Faerun, Shar and Selune battled in the streets of Waterdeep, so I would think that at least History and/or Religion rolls should be made by all parties involved the moment anyone would see Shadowheart in her "I'm a Sharite Crusader" gear, and the difficulty should probably be no more than 10.

Being a GREATER deity isn't the same as being in the greater consciousness. Instead of quoting Deities and Demigods, something a bit more mundane would be better. I hadn't heard about Waterdeep how did people in that book/module react and how have they since.

Shar is very very well known and so are her symbols. She has kinda done things warranting that, and part of it becoming an underground doomsday cult as you put it is that her and her worship have been outlawed in faerun and many many people know the symbols on sight and know to avoid them consequently.

I still think shadowheart would be much better if she had a plausible lie and her symbols became just a little more generic. Could claim to worship the dead god Mask who is close to shar. Said lie can be used to gauge our character's reactions, seems in line with trickery domain, and ultimately would seem plausible to those who do not know she is a sharran (even with an added religion check telling us Mask is dead and while not impossible is somewhat suspicious).

Essentially, I want her to be a better liar.