Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Make Sneak Attack Passive

Despite its namesake, Sneak Attack is not an actual attack. It is a feature that allows Rogues to do extra damage should its conditions be met. The flaw in the way it is currently implemented shows itself if you are dual wielding. You use the Sneak Attack feature as an Action, and if you miss, you're left with your bonus action attack, which will not apply your Sneak Attack should you hit. This is not how Sneak Attack works in 5e. You just attack using one weapon, and if you miss, then you can still use your bonus action to attack with your other weapon, and you get to apply your Sneak Attack damage should you hit with that one instead.

Making Sneak Attack passive allows for Attack, Extra Attack, Bonus Action Attack, Opportunity Attack, and if they implement them spells like Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade the ability to apply Sneak Attack damage if the conditions are met.

except you can only do it on one of your attacks on each turn.

It's almost like Larian was purposefully chasing the goal to make their UI and controls as cumbersome as possible.

AMEN!

Sneak Attack is the defining ability that makes the rogue class what it is. Because of this, when designing a video game, you DON'T want to make it into a passive, invisible mechanic that you have to consciously think about to remember it exists. That's just following basic game design.

I'm usually very much in favor for sticking closer to D&D rules, but in this case I can't fault Larian for doing it this way. It's a core facet of how this studio implements D&D abilities in video game form. The battlemaster selects their maneuvers as special attacks, the rogue selects their sneak attack the same way. In complex games like this, being consistent is good.

Yes, and if you have access to different types of attacks, and miss with one of them, you get to use it on the other should you hit with it.


The way they are implementing it now is a nerf to it. I also think, "invisible" is pushing it, especially since this game is still being developed. When it does damage against the enemy, they could separate the damage and make sure the player is aware that nice big number they see is Sneak Attack damage. If an unfamiliar player wants to investigate, off to the Character sheet they go. Of course that's just one suggestion, and I'm sure Larian could come up with something better.

Every other D&D game I've played that has involved rogues with SA, it's been automated for ease of gameplay translation - that is, it applies to eligible attacks (the first one per turn in editions where it's limited) automatically, but it does give a notifier that you're getting it, more than just a damage number (NWN for example, gives you a little grey text notifier of 'sneak attack' whenever the damage applies').

As it is now, it's a ridiculous implementation that detracts from the rogue class as a whole. They could automate it, sure; it wouldn't be quite as flexible as table-top, but it's what most games do. They could also make it a toggle, since they seem to like those off on the right side of our bar - when enabled applies it on any eligible attack, and when off, does not. That would grant almost the full tabletop flexibility with only the weight of one extra click, on the occasion that you don't want to apply it to your first attack, which is not *very* common.

Either choice would be light years better a choice than the current iteration.

I think Sneak Attack should be made a Toggle. Turn it on, then make an attack. Turns off if the attack hits. That also allows you to mess around with things that would proc sneak attack and get it on the target or attack you want.

Having sneak attack being a button did make it easier to notice it's bugs in Patch 5 though. So there is some benefit to it not being automatic.

It's important that a Sneak Attack Toggle stays on after a successful sneak attack. This way, you don't have to manually turn the toggle on every single turn and it automatically allows opportunity attacks to deal sneak attack damage. Obviously any additional attacks during your turn wouldn't deal sneak attack damage.

Actually that makes more sense. Since often times you would be purposefully trying to not get sneak attack off, so a conscious decision to turn it off.

I think the main problem with Sneak Attack applying passively with multiple attacks is when you have multiple targets, sometimes you don't want to waste your Sneak Attack on your first attack.

E.g. you're engaged by a low-hp enemy that you just want to finish with a normal attack, and then move 20 ft to sneak attack a full hp enemy.

This isn't a big problem in the EA, but will become more significant with more levels and multi-class. Basically, as you get more attacks to spread out, and your sneak attack bonus gets higher, it's going to suck not being able to control when you can activate it. For example, based on BG3's implementation of the Thief, a Fighter 5 / Thief X can have 5 attacks (haste + dual wield), so that's an element of strategy removed if your first hit is always forced to be the sneak attack.

For what it's worth, I do like the toggle solution that mrfjui3 and CJMPinger are putting together.

I never played Rogue in DnD ... so i admit that i have no idea how this "is suppose to work" ...
I just want to say that i kinda like how Larian implemented it, since my action bar would be awfully empty on Rogue character, until i would get some consumable and usable items. :-/

I mean, i believe the point here was to give your character something to do ... instead of generic "right click attack" spam. :-/
And i believe that intention was fulfilled properly.

Now the question is if there is something missing ... but i dont see the urge to delete what was allready achieved to do so. O_o
So far from all suggestions i have read around here (and yes, sneak attack was mentioned in countless other topics) i like the toggle option the most ... you click on button "add snake attack bonus" and then continues the regular way.

Yeah, I was about to write the exact same thing. I think a toggle will be the perfect solution. It will always be "on" so you don't have to remember it every turn and it greys out at the first successful attack.
In the situation you described, in which you want your, idk, 3rd attack to have the bonus damage, you simply toggle off the sneak attack for the first two strikes, then toggle it back on for the third and, if it succeeds, the toggle will automatically grey out for the remaining twos.

Realistically speaking how often is that going to apply in practical terms?
Chances are that if you won't use your sneak attack on your first attack in the turn, you simply won't have any more chances to use it period, because "saving it for later" will mean being out of stealth.
Not to mention that at low levels more often than not your "first attack" is your ONLY attack.

Here's the thing: with an UI that is already fairly messy and convolute to keep in order, what stealth attacks and cunning actions are currently doing for the rogue is pretty much just DUPLICATING some of his standard options on multiple icons.
It's crap, frankly.

This is one of these cases where the downside is so blatant than I'd rather take any other custom "homebrew" option over being pedantic for very little benefit (and I mean in both directions: "only the first attack is going to the the one with the stealth bonus" or "ANY of your attacks in stealth/flanking/whatever is going to apply the sneak bonus").

Honestly I'm not too fond of the "toggle" idea either, but at least if it was a thing I could activate it once and forget about it.

I would agree on making it passive, as I am not in favor of a toggle.

If the requement for sneak attack would be only stealth, you would be right, but your second attack can be aimed at someone who was hit with Guiding bolt in previous round for example. So a rogue with 2 weapons or under haste effect can find some real use for that control over sneak attack. And then it's quite irrelevent how is it on low leveles, we will go above them eventually.

thought I posted a reply to this...guess not. Pretty sure the reason sneak attack and off hand attack are abilities, is so rogue characters have buttons to push.

Yes, and personally I think it's actually not a bad reason.

Really? Because I think it's an abominably god-awful excuse of a reason for designing a busted mechanic and nerfing a class in the process.

As someone who enjoys playing rogues, I'd MUCH rather have my class abilities work like they're supposed to, and have my functional in-combat actions mainly reduced to the standard set of move, attack, dash, dodge, disengage, hide, shove (optional to prone ideally)... oh plus BA disengage, BA dash, BA hide, Ba of-hand attack (capable of SA if I used my attack action to shove someone prone, or if I missed with my attack action but meet the qualifiers with the second attack as well).

"To give them something to do" is the most atrocious excuse imaginable, and completely misguided.