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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
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Okay... this has to be said... just tone it down with Lae'zel a bit for the love of god.
She is damn near impossible to get approval up while you are being good, and she often seems to dissaprove of things for no reason other than the fact its the seemingly good choice. Give her a little bit more nuance and sense, and just tone it down a little bit.
Im not asking for a complete overhaul, or a complete branching path like you seem to be giving Shadowheart with the two versions (one where you save her and one where you dont)
But that wouldnt be bad, half the fun of a character like Lae'zel would be her realizing her peoples culture is toxic and tyrannical, and helping her turn her back on it.
But im not even asking for that, im just asking for a bit more nuance with her.
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member
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member
Joined: Dec 2020
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I mean… in the future every characters will have more depth. Her personality and culture makes her reaction reasonable and id expect no less until mid-end of act 2. Like… The choice you make aren’t supposed to make everyone like you. If you want to explore the content of specific characters, you need to be ready others won’t agree. Its a game of choice afterall.
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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
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I mean… in the future every characters will have more depth. Her personality and culture makes her reaction reasonable and id expect no less until mid-end of act 2. Like… The choice you make aren’t supposed to make everyone like you. If you want to explore the content of specific characters, you need to be ready others won’t agree. Its a game of choice afterall. I dont disagree, but having her Zig literally every single time you Zag gets tiring... Like, she is an asshole not a contrarian hipster.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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She is damn near impossible to get approval up while you are being good... I gues that is the point. O_o Hardly you could gain approval from Evil character, while doing Good stuff. O_o That is simmilary messed up, like wanting Wyll to aproove when you murder Tiefling kids. 
Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 21/07/21 09:27 AM.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings.  Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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Lae'zel is a typical gith and is reacting accordingly. I never have much approval with her or Astarion, but that's ok. Those two are clearly meant for evil playthroughs and I prefer playing good. They should be absolutely disgusted by me.
I usually get approval with Lae'zel, if I show strength or act against the tadpole, so being mean to that cambion (forgot his name) gives some approval or promising Nettie to take the poison, if you notice a change in your condition.
Since companions don't leave for approval reasons just yet (I know that companions can leave because of certain decisions though), I don't see a problem. And with full game release, we probably have enough companions to choose the ones, that fit our playstyle the best.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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Lae'zel is, as previously mentioned, a pretty straightforward character: she's strong willed, opinionated, has a goal, hates illithid, doesn't tolerate dallying, weakness or negotiating when there's no need. So she's very much a "I punch this guy and take what I need because f**k killing those ten rats for him" sort of player. I also don't really get on with her; I prefer negotiating, and ideally avoiding or reducing the scale of fights when I can which is, as you'd expect of a girl who's cleric domain is Trickery, more alighned with Shadowheart. Wyll and Gale are pretty amiable, and so's Asterion as long as you entertain him a bit and aren't too too errand-boy/girl for people.
Thinking on this, Shadowheart does make a very good point in the new patch's content if you get her out the pod and wake her up at the beach: assuming she landed close by as well, Lae'zel abandoned the pair of you.
You do raise a very good point though OP. Shadowheart was originally quite closed off and reserved, even going so far as calling the kiss in her end-path-scene a mistake. Lae'zael is far more abresive, arguably even abusive, yet I've not really seen calls for her to be more friendly.
Last edited by Some_Twerp753; 21/07/21 12:00 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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no, don't change her at all, leave her how she is.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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She is damn near impossible to get approval up while you are being good, this is just copy-paste from the wiki, APPROVAL UP:
Show Guex in the Druid Grove your sword fighting technique (Athletics check).
Talk to the bird in the Druid Grove by using Speak with Animals and intimidate it. (Charisma check).
Convince Zorru, in the Druid Grove, to kneel.
Choose to attack Taman and Gimblelock in dialogue outside the Crypt.
When talking to Zevlor the first time inside the Druid Grove, tell him you're sorry but you have no time to help him.
During dialogue with Lae'zel, after she describes ceremorphosis, tell her you will find a cure.
If Kagha's snake kills Arabella, tell her "She was just protecting her own." in dialogue afterwards.
Swear to Nettie you will take the poison.
Crush the Tadpole outside of the Druid Grove.
Decline the Devil's invitation to remove your Tadpole.
Respond to Volo in the Goblin Camp with "-"
Make Novice Crusher kiss your foot in the Goblin Camp.
Resist during the first dream sequence.
Cruel behaviors.
Calm down the boar near where you recruit Astarion.
Fight the fake god Boooal in THE FESTERING COVE.
Allowing her to speak to her githyanki brothers/sisters
When the player emulates the roar of a mind flayer while talking to Lorin.
Break Alfira's lute.
Acknowledge how valuable the K'liir library is.
Drink from the well in the Putrid Bog (Quest: Save Mayrina)
Kill the Owlbear cub and its parent
Reassure Lae'zel in the Camp that she will survive and please Vlaakith
APPROVAL DOWN:
Convince the Owlbear not to kill you in its cave
In the crypt, agreeing with Shadowheart, questioning the need of possessions for the dead.
Convince Arka to spare Sazza by stepping in front of the crossbow.
At Camp, agreeing with Shadowheart that the first priority is to find a healer.
Try to persuade the goblin guard outside the Goblin Camp
Smear dung on your face when Sentinel Olak askes you to
Lae'zel has a rivalry attitude towards Shadowheart, heed to Shadowheart's advice will upset her.
Sympathetic behaviors.
Disapproves if you succeed in the persuasion check to stop Kagha from imprisoning the child.
Find the evidence of Kagha working with Shadow Druids and expose her. (Quest Save the refugees)
Bring Mayrina back home (Quest: Save Mayrina)
Make a deal with Auntie Ethel to remove the Tadpole from your brain (Quest: Get Help from Auntie Ethel) She generally disaproves if you dont like killing things. She likes killing things and solving things by killing. She dislikes you doing things which could be solved with a fight. If you don't like doing that she is written so she does not like you. I agree there are a hadful of oddites in the above, but generally it fits her character well. It's "damn near impossible to get approval up while you are being good" because she as a character does not like you if you do those things. The other issue, though it has been toned down is that one of the ways in which the approval-disapproval dynamic is done is that things that grant Shadowheart approval grant lae'zel disapproval and vice versa. So you can't really get them both up without doing some really meta-game things. There is plenty of nuance in her character, but it is tied to her insecurities and hopes for the future, not her understanding of good and evil. I hope she stays who she is.
Last edited by alice_ashpool; 21/07/21 02:53 PM.
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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
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again, I will re-iterate... and I will re-iterate it as many times as necessary.
Im not asking her to be nicer, im just asking it be toned bit
Her evil tendencies are more comedic than they are interesting.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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again, I will re-iterate... and I will re-iterate it as many times as necessary.
Im not asking her to be nicer, im just asking it be toned bit
Her evil tendencies are more comedic than they are interesting. Example?
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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For a genocidal space-nazi, she's actually rather sweet.
I could hug her when she disses Raphael, it's good to have one companion who isn't awed. And "Hideous, all of it!" always makes me smile.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Mar 2021
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Some players like an evil playthrough, and she is a good companion option for that. Same with Astarion. All the companions are set to like very specific moral solutions, and it is deliberately set up to not be able to please everyone all the time.
I would suggest being an evil mo-fo some time and you will get great affinity with her and Astarion, but significantly less with with the others.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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My suspicion is that Shadowheart is a redemption story line and Lae'zel is a conquest one. That going with her means she takes over some branch of Githyanki society somehow... not overturning Vlakith, of course, but there's lots between her and that.
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member
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member
Joined: Dec 2020
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Every warning Shadowheart gives about Lae'zel is probably true. She is a githyanki, a race of people who believe in plundering what they want, when they want, and any roundabout ways of solving issues is weakness. They are raised from birth to fight and kill and they probably do so on reflex. To her, being diplomatic and not domineering is like watching a parent placate a spoiled child. Pathetic. She is intense, severe, and excessive because she is a gith, and I love it. The nuance with Lae'zel comes from emphasizing the "lawful" in lawful evil alignment. Order, hierarchy, procedure, and honor are some things you can appeal to that don't always require wreaking havoc on the weak. Resisting the tadpole every chance you get earns respect from her. One of her best scenes is when she thinks ceremorphosis is inevitable and is willing to take her own life than turn. Approval is also not even a big deal. Her greeting only changes when you get Exceptional Approval or complete the Gith Patrol. Approval really isn't going to change her tone in EA at the moment. But if you want her tone to change when you speak to her, it depends more on what you choose to say than anything else. She can come off as someone you can actually work with, like a business partner of sorts, if you keep chatter to information and the current situation. Notice how much information Gale unintentionally gets out of Lae in banter. On the flip side, it takes A LOT to get the companions to Very Low Approval for them to leave you. I think playing an unyielding, forceful lawful good character would make for an interesting dynamic between them and Lae'zel. You keep her around because she's an effective warrior whose one job is to eliminate targets, and she sticks around because you get things done. Approval wouldn't be very high, but tension is one of Lae'zel's selling points. Also, Lae'zel reacts if you sell out Astarion to the monster hunter, and one of the responses you can choose seems very lawful good. Her response to that option makes for interesting characterization for the player character and it has intrigued me to make this character type ever since. Of course I am currently thoroughly enjoying playing in a way more in line with Lae than to change it up at the moment.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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Honestly, Laezel is fine to me. She is a githyanki, prefers to solve every problem with violence cause that's the gith way, yet despite being super rude displays enough doubts and autonomy to allow you to lead and even dissuade her from certain actions.
By comparison, my only problem with Shadowheart is she is a horrendous liar and I want her to be better at it.
Otherwise they are both fine to me.
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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
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okay, so I am going to repeat it again...
I am not disagreeing, but I think it just needs to be toned down and given nuance a bit.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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okay, so I am going to repeat it again...
I am not disagreeing, but I think it just needs to be toned down and given nuance a bit. Err, I am saying I feel fine with the tone its at, doesn't need toning back for me. And I see some nuance there, in her doubts, that I believe will be expanded upon in the future. It is fine with us to disagree.
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member
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member
Joined: Dec 2020
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okay, so I am going to repeat it again...
I am not disagreeing, but I think it just needs to be toned down and given nuance a bit. And I'm saying that your dialogue options effectively tone her down and that there's already nuance in the game. She's cordial with the player in her own gith way, and refers to Tav as an ally in an instance or two. Try playing as a Gith and this all becomes way more apparent.
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