First off, Larian did improve some aspects of the AI in combat. This is not a total shit on Larian thread, but there are still some critical issues.
DASH: The AI seems to dash at random times to accomplish nothing. Sometimes they dash when they could attack an enemy in range without dashing. Sometimes they dash away from an enemy (drawing opportunity attacks) and then come back to where they started, essentially wasting a turn.
Now with the dash logic, it is very easy to kite AI back and making them use only dash. It seems like the AI primary goal is to always close the distance to the enemy, which makes it very easy to bait them into chokes or kite them indefinitely.
PRIORITY: I have seen this AI skip over an enemy that had lower HP and advantage roll, maybe 1 hit from being downed, to hit a full HP enemy with no advantage. Seems very weird to me that this happens.
SPELLS: Some sleeps the AI used seem to complete break the logic.
The AI still bugs out with Hunters Mark. Sometimes it casts Hunters Mark on itself, sometimes still after it attacks a target, sometimes it attacks a target and Hunters Mark a different target.
Bless I have seen where AI Clerics only bless themselves and then move near allies, when it should be the other way around. They are not maximizing the targets for buffs and doing things out of order.
Fog cloud is another spell where the AI is using it almost at their own disadvantage. It makes the battle easier for the human player.
FIRE BOMBS AND ARROWS: A lot of Goblins still have a bunch of flaming projectiles they throw, which still creates surface issues. Really wish you were not on fire unless the projectile hit you. This still nerfs casters that rely on Concentration constantly being forced to roll saves for surfaces.
AI KNOWLEDGE: I wish it were not so easy to see everything about the enemy AI (stats, weaknesses, resistances, AC) with no effort or skill for this. I am not sure how to fix this, but maybe this would be linked to a skill check or some kind of compendium
Yep the AI Seen some improvements, some steps forward and some backwards. But this AI system is really far from being perfectl. I think it's far from even being adequate.
Of course while we are still in EA it is acceptable and I assume it will keep improving. But yes a lot of work to be done.
Some aspect of gameplay that improved with patch 5 but still not enough - the enemies plotting their next move issue. It used to be everywhere throughout the game - enemies spend the first 20-40 seconds of their turn just standing around and doing nothing, which in my opinion is still the biggest problem with the gameplay. It hurts the pacing of combat like nothing else.
As mentioned, this problem is rarer now, but unfortunately, it is very prevalent where it is most noticeable - the goblin grove fight. Since this place has so many enemies, this is the worst possible place for the problem to trigger and it made that fight an unbearable slog.
When talking about enemies AI this problem should be the number one goal.
AI KNOWLEDGE: I wish it were not so easy to see everything about the enemy AI (stats, weaknesses, resistances, AC) with no effort or skill for this. I am not sure how to fix this, but maybe this would be linked to a skill check or some kind of compendium
I think this is useful in an EA setting because I suppose it is useful to be able to check these things as you play; but overall I agree and hope the current system is a placeholder. PF:KM bases this info on "Inspect" and DC checks at various levels. It's good imo.
Yea, I'd much rather have ai that did some stupid things. Unless we're fighting extremely intelligent creatures, they shouldn't be making the "correct" move every time. I make stupid decisions all the time, why can't the ai?
Speaking of DASH, the animation desperately needs change to speed up battles. Remove the unimmersive casting animation, keep the dash text, perhaps change the cloudy trail with speed/movement lines and a slight blurring of the creature while dashing.
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Yea, I'd much rather have ai that did some stupid things. Unless we're fighting extremely intelligent creatures, they shouldn't be making the "correct" move every time. I make stupid decisions all the time, why can't the ai?
Would rather see intelligence or some kind of "battle prowess" stat determine how smart the AI behaves. Perhaps also liked to the difficulty level. I dislike seeing so many enemies being given considerably higher attributes than the player as a way to boost them.
Speaking of DASH, the animation desperately needs change to speed up battles. Remove the unimmersive casting animation, keep the dash text, perhaps change the cloudy trail with speed/movement lines and a slight blurring of the creature while dashing.
Yep the Dash animation takes way too long and looks too magical. And I want to be able to auto-dash by simply moving again after moving a full distance. Just indicate the action use somehow on the Dash move so that I don't accidentally think I haven't moved already.
This fight sequence Wolfie did is proof enough that combat AI needs A LOT more revision. The AI is blindly walking into barrels, not knowing what to do when you position your fighters on the high ground, the mere fact that you can essentially beat all three bosses and their minions at once with effectively 3 members in your party should be enough reasoning. Yes, Wolfheart has gone through every nook and cranny of this game and is a very good player but he even admits that hes abusing the Hide mechanic while on the high ground. I understand that its a cheese way to do this and that most of the playerbase will never think of even trying this but the barrels are overpowered and the fact that the AI can't do nothing about them makes them even more broken. This should not be possible to do (with relative ease), even if most of the minions are Levels 1 and 2, the sheer number of them should make this fight way harder. Dror Ragzlin did nothing. Priestess Gut swallowed a big barrel and did nothing. Minthara survived for as long only because of Mirror Image.
Its worrying, to say the least. ((this is not to trash on WolfheartFPS, only to prove a point regarding the combat AI and combat exploits, he is an amazing content creator and a wonderful addition to this community and you should really go check in on his streams if you aren't already!))
First off, Larian did improve some aspects of the AI in combat. This is not a total shit on Larian thread, but there are still some critical issues.
PRIORITY: I have seen this AI skip over an enemy that had lower HP and advantage roll, maybe 1 hit from being downed, to hit a full HP enemy with no advantage. Seems very weird to me that this happens.
Damage spread is really good for normal difficulty and lower. It shouldn't be too difficult to have a tweaked AI for higher difficulty. TBH focus fire DMs are no fun. And the same is true in Baldur's Gate 3. D&D rules usually aren't fun with focused attacks from the DM.
Originally Posted by gaymer
Some sleeps the AI used seem to complete break the logic. Bless I have seen where AI Clerics only bless themselves and then move near allies, when it should be the other way around. They are not maximizing the targets for buffs and doing things out of order. Fog cloud is another spell where the AI is using it almost at their own disadvantage. It makes the battle easier for the human player.
If players bring a human party the sleep cast could be devastating. The AI has successfully put Gale to sleep several times. Fog Cloud I agree with, it usually gets cast for no effect.
Yea, I'd much rather have ai that did some stupid things. Unless we're fighting extremely intelligent creatures, they shouldn't be making the "correct" move every time. I make stupid decisions all the time, why can't the ai?
Didn't Larian also say the AI was stratified by intelligence? Which is a smart move, unintelligent creatures should make unintelligent actions.
NPCs now have similar basic actions to those of the player. -Most Humanoids now have access to Dash, Jump, Throw, Shove. -Most other creatures now have access to Dash.
NPCs will now only use Slash and Smash once per fight.
NPCs now only receive weapon actions like Cleave and Slash if they've equipped the corresponding weapon.
Bugbears, Ogres, and certain Goblins now have ranged spells, allowing them to attack from range if nothing else is available.
When difficult terrain prevents an enemy from making a melee attack, it will try a ranged attack.
Disarmed characters now look for replacement weapons. Most NPCs have their own preferences.
AI now supports basic resource planning, allowing characters to better reason about spells that grant more resources (like Dash and Action Surge) .
AI now reasons better about effects that give bonuses to rolls.
AI now understands aura effects (e.g. Silence, Gale's Necrotic aura, Flaming Sphere etc.).
AI now reasons better about overlapping crowd control statuses (e.g. casting Blind on a sleeping target).
AI is now less willing to damage allies to remove effects such as Sleep.
Less intelligent creatures (imps, beasts, etc.) will no longer destroy items for their secondary effects (e.g. destroying a barrel to cause an explosion to nearby enemies).
Added AI archetypes for Ogres and Zombies.
Adjusted how willing the AI is to target summons (more for beasts/creatures, less for humanoids).
AI now reasons better about the Prone condition and difficult terrain.
AI is now less biased towards targeting enemies it's already attacked, or attacking a target that attacked them. ...
Yea, I'd much rather have ai that did some stupid things. Unless we're fighting extremely intelligent creatures, they shouldn't be making the "correct" move every time. I make stupid decisions all the time, why can't the ai?
Didn't Larian also say the AI was stratified by intelligence? Which is a smart move, unintelligent creatures should make unintelligent actions.
I also like the idea that different enemies have better/worse tactics depending on their intelligence (and/or maybe wisdom?), but there's a difference between "sub-optimally attacks the high-hp, high-AC fighter instead of finishing off the 1-hp wizard 5-feet away" and "uses dash to run away and then uses their move to return to their starting position." Most of what OP listed seems like bugs in the AI coding, not intentionally dumb decisions that are still reasonable actions for even the most idiotic enemy. Especially spellcasters: even dumb ones should be familiar with how to use their spells.
Though kiting enemies who always try to close the distance to their original target is a good example of reasonably dumb enemy AI.
First off, Larian did improve some aspects of the AI in combat. This is not a total shit on Larian thread, but there are still some critical issues.
PRIORITY: I have seen this AI skip over an enemy that had lower HP and advantage roll, maybe 1 hit from being downed, to hit a full HP enemy with no advantage. Seems very weird to me that this happens.
Damage spread is really good for normal difficulty and lower. It shouldn't be too difficult to have a tweaked AI for higher difficulty. TBH focus fire DMs are no fun. And the same is true in Baldur's Gate 3. D&D rules usually aren't fun with focused attacks from the DM.
Agreed - remember in earlier patches where the enemies would be in vicious mode where they would zero in on lowest AC exclusively and hit downed party members until pulped!? A degree of non-optimization in enemy behaviors is essential imo and I like the idea that it might be tied to the Int stat. I don't think every encounter (on standard difficulties at least) should be like playing a master-tactician chess computer.
Honestly I see no challenge in BG3 fights in terms of AI, pre and post patch 5. Plus, now every enemy is obsessed with dash it is even easier. They just throw themselves to my blade.
I create my own challenge instead. I keep reloading the fights in order to see how quickly I can kill the enemies.
Honestly I see no challenge in BG3 fights in terms of AI, pre and post patch 5. Plus, now every enemy is obsessed with dash it is even easier. They just throw themselves to my blade.
I create my own challenge instead. I keep reloading the fights in order to see how quickly I can kill the enemies.
This fight sequence Wolfie did is proof enough that combat AI needs A LOT more revision. The AI is blindly walking into barrels, not knowing what to do when you position your fighters on the high ground, the mere fact that you can essentially beat all three bosses and their minions at once with effectively 3 members in your party should be enough reasoning. Yes, Wolfheart has gone through every nook and cranny of this game and is a very good player but he even admits that hes abusing the Hide mechanic while on the high ground. I understand that its a cheese way to do this and that most of the playerbase will never think of even trying this but the barrels are overpowered and the fact that the AI can't do nothing about them makes them even more broken. This should not be possible to do (with relative ease), even if most of the minions are Levels 1 and 2, the sheer number of them should make this fight way harder. Dror Ragzlin did nothing. Priestess Gut swallowed a big barrel and did nothing. Minthara survived for as long only because of Mirror Image.
Its worrying, to say the least. ((this is not to trash on WolfheartFPS, only to prove a point regarding the combat AI and combat exploits, he is an amazing content creator and a wonderful addition to this community and you should really go check in on his streams if you aren't already!))
I mean this is hard work, a 54 minute video by an very experienced player using every possible thing he can think of to do it and still involves downs. In short it is not "possible to do with relative ease" - it requires a lot of tedious work. That's not to say that there are not issues with how the enemies react but the player is pushing things to the absolute limit to do this. It is not a walk in the park.
I can confirm that plenty of enemies use dash when it doesn't make all that much sense. Mages dashing into melee rather than moving and casting is the most egregious example I have encountered.
