On the point of AC, afaik the highest "long term" AC you can get is 22 in the EA with a Fighter:
15 from Scale Mail Armor +1/Lae'zel's Armor +2 from Dex 14 +2 from a Shield +1 from Defensive
then buffed with: +2 from Shield of Faith
Though if someone knows higher I am interested. I am aware that Mirror Image will boost higher for a brief period but its not a long term thing.
AC of 17 to 19 is relatively standard for most combat classes in the EA with available gear. Afaik there is a lack of heavy armor so Medium armor + 2 Dex represents the best in EA. No idea what it will be like in the finished product.
23 AC with the new shove ring is the highest.
I have done the Githyanki fight in Patch 5 without any pre-positioning or cheese or potions.
Overall thoughts below, please disagree if you would like!
Firstly, in my opinion, Patch 5 gets rid of something irritating - the propensity to leapfrog around to get backstab advantage. I like flanking rules and think they can work well in games, but in my experience Pathfinder:kingmaker is RTwP and they work well in the messiness of the combat there. Here, in turn based, I am not so sure. It is impossible for me to really comment without experiencing two different systems. Overall the removal of backstab is good.
Stealth - is very powerful, as one would expect for sneaking up on someone and nuking them. I think that is fine. People have complained about re-stealthing in combat: I have not used this all that much but can understand that it can seem a bit ridiculous. the Baldur's Gate mod SCS design philosophy was not to take away tools and towys, but to provide enemies with counters to them - that worked in RtWP since as soon as you went invisible enemy mages would tend to cast Detect Invisibility, Invisibility Purge or at higher levels True Sight. In a turn based game this is much harder since stealthing (if successful) then allows an attack from stealth with advantage before an enemy has a turn. Perhaps a way to do this is that in combat stealth should 1) Perhaps only be possible if you have stealth proficiency or are a rogue (or adjacent class) and 2) Be made with disadvantage? This is just random thoughts based around the fact that it seems too powerful. If it is in as it is at the moment then Enemies should be using it as well, which would probably cause all sorts of issues. So some sort of toning down perhaps.
Barrels - All I want is that if you put one down in a potentially hostile area someone comes up to you like in the theft/assault dialogue and challenges you for which you need to make a check to not trigger combat. For example you put down a barrel of explosives in the Goblin Camp and are challenged, if you pass a check the goblins are fine with it, if you fail they twig that something is up.
Height Advantage - Some days I like it, some days I hate it! I'm easy either way.
New Combat Tactics - Improved but still somewhat lacking. Bugs and some erroneous AI issues weaken current ability of enemies. It feels like a move in the right direction but is not there yet.
Maneuverability in combat - Still a major issue for me. Accidental AoOs, irritating pathing and the very large detours characters have to take around others due to large "hit boxes" are one of the main letdowns.
Enemy Targetting - feels much more forgiving.
Endlessly helping people up who are bleeding out - Yeah, you can do this just like you could at the beginning. If you are fighting few enough enemies with only single target attacks then ultimately you can just lift people up every round. I am not fully opposed to this but it feels like something that should not be present for harder, or even core, difficulties.
Encounter difficulty - some changes to AI have made a couple of encounters feel a bit harder. Changes to Githyanki health and AI has made them much harder. Some things have been toned down. Overall it does not feel all that much harder outside of the Githyanki patrol and some AI oddities, and in many areas feels easier due to Patch Noted changes.
Combat related Magic Items - One thing I think BG3 is doing right at the moment is magic items. Rare is the game that seems to get magic items right - Most RPGs I have played have had disappointing Magic Item systems to me (Super Randomised, or Prioritizing Crafting over exploration/purchase), while BG1 and 2 magic Items were all either found in exploration or pruchased for high but not excruciatingly high prices. This is not a comment on item abundance something which has been highlighted as potentially too high, this is a comment on itemisation style. You feel like items are either found while exploring or bought for large but not impossibly high prices - just like the originals. Those items are interesting with varied effects, they are not all "+1 to X", some are clearly much more powerful than others: I support this. And like in BG1 and 2 there is possibility to build characters around certain items.
Spells - I think other people have laid out issues with Spells much better than I can, but suffice to say that in almost every encounter you are better off Casting Magic Missile, Shatter or Guided Bolt than anything else in the spell-pools. There's some issues with this.
BOOAL fight - made easier, hard disagree, I liked this as a fully optional difficult fight.
Combat difficulty feels, overall, suitable for a "normal difficulty" and on a personal note, much more enjoyable than the other 5e game - I don't know why this is, it just does for me. I don't like 5e compared to 2e and Pathfinder but I do seem to like this. Annoyingly I can't remember many of my critical issues any more.
I had the same thought about barrels this time around as I was bedecking Razlin throne with enough explosives to end the encounter before it starts, a sleight-of-hand/performance/deception challenge with an increasing DC for every barrel would be interesting. Of course I'm still waiting for them to let us knock over the statue on to him too.
Height Advantage; would you be down for an exchange between to-hit and range?
I think Maneuverability in combat is a D&D problem, a lot of other ttrpgs seem to go out of there way to address this, with complicated rules governing engagement/ZOC etc. I don't have an answer but an attack of opportunity doesn't seem like enough and the Sentinel feat seems like too much (way too much).
In general, outside of the Gith fight, I feel like most of the fights are easier in this patch. I really like the removal of backstab advantage as it really makes you utilize more abilities, and everything feels more like D&D.
I did the Gith fight relatively early, I beelined for it basically after the blighted village (stopping for the Sword of Justice), mainly because I was super excited to check out the higher difficulty. I did hit level 4 before the fight thanks to having kill the Commander Zhalk (sp?) in the prologue.
I took quite a somewhat different approach to the Gith fight - leaning much more on the OPness of haste as currently implemented (2 levelled spells!!) and crowd control, but otherwise didn't need to resort to barrel, dipping, height, or stealth cheese. It's definitely much more RNG based than before, but I did do my best to stack the odds in my favor. I've done the fight this way twice (reloaded after the first one to see how replicable this was) with the first time coming down to the wire, whereas the 2nd time was much easier.
Party Composition for the Gith Fight: Player: Land Druid (Coast), Lae'zel Battlemaster, Gale Abjurer, Shadowheart.
Prebuffs (pretty much the usual): Aid + Mage Armor (Gale) + Shield of Faith (Lae'zel via sword) + Bless (level 1 - everyone but Druid)
Key Magic Items: Sword of Justice (Lae'zel), Hellrider's Pride (Druid, Bladeward on Heal), and at least 1 potion of haste for each party member
Key Spells / Abilities Command (Cleric) - probably the most important spell. It only had 50-60% success per target, but the key was upcasting it at level 2 (2 targets), and doing it twice (w/ haste) so you're blanketing the entire Gith squads. There's still RNG but you have a good chance of denying a few of the Giths their turns, which lets you snowball the fight.
Sleep (Wizard) - your most reliable CC - but can only be used once the Giths are at certain HP thresholds. There is no save and the Giths have no immunity, so it's a guarantee way to CC them. A powerful side effect of this as currently implemented is that you have a 100% hit chance when you're within 5 ft. This includes spells like Scorching Ray, inflict wounds, Guiding Bolt etc - perfect for executions.
Tasha's Hideous Laughter (Wizard) - the other CC I spammed with Gale when I can't use sleep. Gives the prone condition so you can get an attack at advantage. There's a chance the spell ends if you do that though. It's also concentration so you can't spam it like Command or Sleep.
Moonbeam (Druid) - despite having the DC bugged at 5, it's still very useful due to it having a bit of AOE, 100% chance of hitting each time, and the bonus tick you get on the target's turn. The damage adds up over various turns. Need to be careful to use with Sleep/Hideous Laughter though not to end the effect early.
Trip/Menancing/Disarming Strike (Battlemaster) - I had disarming/trip/riposte for this run (wanted to try something new). Trip is the primary go to, unless it doesn't synergize with the initiative order (i.e it's your last attack and they get up next turn). The Giths might make all the saves but the extra damage definitely helps.
Magic Missile - super reliable way to pack on damage, which is amazing for this fight due to how high the GIth's AC is.
Invoke Duplicity - no-save method of giving your melee attackers advantage.
Healing Word - really important if anyone goes down. When combined with Hellrider's Pride it makes preventive healing worth it too (instead of waiting for someone to go down) thanks to the blade ward applied.
General Approach: I basically ran right in, so every character started on the low grounds. The Giths have good AC (17), and overall pretty decent saves, so in most cases I try not to waste actions on 50/50 attacks (if there are other options).
My strategy was basically to stack the odds in my favor and snowball the fight early by using haste potions to spam them with an overwhelming amount of CC, and then start focusing down on whoever isn't CC'ed or in a situation where I have advantage. A key thing to do when using the haste potions is to stagger the usage a bit, so you don't have every character getting hit with lethargy at the same time later on.
In both situations, I was able to CC a good portion of the Gith party, and focus down one to at least get them within Sleep hp range. I primarily target base on situational advantages and position within the initiative. In general, I relied on advantage attacks for Lae'zel when possible (esp. when using action surge), though with bless and a +1 sword she does have a decent chance of landing a hit.
I try not to metagame too much to expose the assassin Gith so Lae'zel tends to eat a pretty nasty backstab in the first round. I got pretty lucky in both cases from an initiative order standpoint (I can see her easily going down fast if other Giths go after the Assassin), but once she's exposed, she's usually a pretty easy target since she has lower hp than most.
Once the fight becomes 3 v 4, it becomes pretty easy, especially since your whole party is hasted. The biggest struggle I had towards the end is when there's 1 Gith left and I start running out of spells and losing concentration on buffs like bless, which leads to a depleted Gale/Shadowheart having no options but 40% - 50% chance attacks/cantrips. However, at this point, the fight's essentially done - even with the low % swings, your party can outlast a solo Gith.
In both fights, my Druid still had tons of slots left at this point thanks to how economical Moonbeam is. In both cases, I mainly relied on Moonbeam to tickle the Gith to death while the rest of the spell slots are used with the Healing Word + Hellrider's Pride combo to help outlast.
Gith I don’t have a Druid character & didn’t actually think to use disarm - used mirror image - possible if you really sat down and planned it out without Lazel running in somehow you might get through it ... but that’s not really the way a party would approach it unless they new it was going to go pear shaped right from the beginning. Mind you that’s maybe an abstract way to think of it vs how to beat the encounter. I will try again with speed potions etc too but I find that every turn you ain’t laying down the hurt is another nail in your coffin for this encounter. Definitely harder and maybe from what some posters have said better to wait till you have some of the better items.....that and not have a bugged out Gith warrior who gets stuck under the bridge but somehow can still hit my party with his sword when they were above him.
Also Gith can teleport & have the massive jump ability so if ai goes hard out it’s a really tough scrap
And when you to hit percentage is between 35-55% that’s tricky too ...ok I’m whinging now but you get my drift - it’s hard !
Key Spells / Abilities Command (Cleric) - probably the most important spell. It only had 50-60% success per target, but the key was upcasting it at level 2 (2 targets), and doing it twice (w/ haste) so you're blanketing the entire Gith squads. There's still RNG but you have a good chance of denying a few of the Giths their turns, which lets you snowball the fight.
Sleep (Wizard) - your most reliable CC - but can only be used once the Giths are at certain HP thresholds. There is no save and the Giths have no immunity, so it's a guarantee way to CC them. A powerful side effect of this as currently implemented is that you have a 100% hit chance when you're within 5 ft. This includes spells like Scorching Ray, inflict wounds, Guiding Bolt etc - perfect for executions.
Tasha's Hideous Laughter (Wizard) - the other CC I spammed with Gale when I can't use sleep. Gives the prone condition so you can get an attack at advantage. There's a chance the spell ends if you do that though. It's also concentration so you can't spam it like Command or Sleep.
[...]
My strategy was basically to stack the odds in my favor and snowball the fight early by using haste potions to spam them with an overwhelming amount of CC, and then start focusing down on whoever isn't CC'ed or in a situation where I have advantage. A key thing to do when using the haste potions is to stagger the usage a bit, so you don't have every character getting hit with lethargy at the same time later on.
In both situations, I was able to CC a good portion of the Gith party, and focus down one to at least get them within Sleep hp range. I primarily target base on situational advantages and position within the initiative. In general, I relied on advantage attacks for Lae'zel when possible (esp. when using action surge), though with bless and a +1 sword she does have a decent chance of landing a hit.
[...]
Nice to see someone taking down the fight with a CC emphasis. I had not realised that command hit 2 targets upcast. Cool.
how do you easily kill the bulet? I have to avoid that thing at all costs
Quite easily, it depends on how much "Core DnD" you want it ... Usualy i avoid him at every potential encounter, until only last remains (usualy that one where hook horrors are) ... that means either drinking invis potion, or cast invisibility, or simply hide and stealth away as fast as possible ... and if all that fails, i simply let the engaged character die. Note that Bulette is not engaged by your attack, but by your promixity to spawn point ... meaning he will spawn, even if you are stealthing, so he will not even know about you ... and if you manage to spawn him so he dont notice you, but will notice Hooked Horror ... they will easily reduce him to 50% for you.
This is probably the most cheesy and cowardish option ... but i can asure you it works like a charm.
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
I like flanking rules and think they can work well in games, but in my experience Pathfinder:kingmaker is RTwP and they work well in the messiness of the combat there. Here, in turn based, I am not so sure.
Personaly i hope they implement flanking when enemy is threatened (is that the word? simply when someone else is standing on meele range) ... I would just like to say that i dont want it to cause "advantage" +1 ro attack would be quite fine.
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Perhaps a way to do this is that in combat stealth should 1) Perhaps only be possible if you have stealth proficiency or are a rogue (or adjacent class)
I honestly dont like any tie to class ... There is no way to say "this Rogue with 8 Dexterity is (besides of being really bad rogue apparently) allways stealthier than this Fighter, with 14 Dexterity wearing the exactly same armor as that Rogue". :-/ Proficiency sounds great ... + i really would love to see every enemy in *XY* (i would say 10 for example) meters, should imediatly roll perception check against his Stealth roll, to simulate the effort to reveal him again.
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Barrels - All I want is that if you put one down in a potentially hostile area someone comes up to you like in the theft/assault dialogue and challenges you for which you need to make a check to not trigger combat. For example you put down a barrel of explosives in the Goblin Camp and are challenged, if you pass a check the goblins are fine with it, if you fail they twig that something is up.
I like this idea. :3 But i would also altern explosion radius to be either stronger, or a little wider ... in perfect world, it would also make bleed effect to everyone in REALLY wide area. (you know ... shrapnels)
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Height Advantage - Some days I like it, some days I hate it! I'm easy either way.
From all suggestions i have read around here, change advantage for hard +1 for "small difference in height" ... and +2 for "big difference in height" ... That sounds the best.
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Maneuverability in combat - Still a major issue for me. Accidental AoOs, irritating pathing and the very large detours characters have to take around others due to large "hit boxes" are one of the main letdowns.
+1
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Endlessly helping people up who are bleeding out - Yeah, you can do this just like you could at the beginning. If you are fighting few enough enemies with only single target attacks then ultimately you can just lift people up every round. I am not fully opposed to this but it feels like something that should not be present for harder, or even core, difficulties.
I dunno ... it seems to me like if that is simmilar trap to True Strike. I mean, usualy when i used Help in middle of combat (not to awake someone, but to prevent his death) ... he was down again right next turn, and the character who helped him usualy lost some HP too. I dont say allways, as you said "if you are fighting with few enemies with single attack only" ... but that would be the thing Larian should in my opinion focus, if they would like to eradicate such attitude ... as long as there will never be "few enemies with single target only" problem should resolve itself.
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Encounter difficulty - some changes to AI have made a couple of encounters feel a bit harder. Changes to Githyanki health and AI has made them much harder. Some things have been toned down. Overall it does not feel all that much harder outside of the Githyanki patrol and some AI oddities, and in many areas feels easier due to Patch Noted changes.
+1
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Combat difficulty feels, overall, suitable for a "normal difficulty" and on a personal note, much more enjoyable than the other 5e game - I don't know why this is, it just does for me. I don't like 5e compared to 2e and Pathfinder but I do seem to like this. Annoyingly I can't remember many of my critical issues any more.
+1
Originally Posted by Sozz
Height Advantage; would you be down for an exchange between to-hit and range?
I know the question was not meaned for me ... But this sounds like interesting concept. O_o
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
Overall thoughts below, please disagree if you would like!
Firstly, in my opinion, Patch 5 gets rid of something irritating - the propensity to leapfrog around to get backstab advantage. I like flanking rules and think they can work well in games, but in my experience Pathfinder:kingmaker is RTwP and they work well in the messiness of the combat there. Here, in turn based, I am not so sure. It is impossible for me to really comment without experiencing two different systems. Overall the removal of backstab is good.
...
Maneuverability in combat - Still a major issue for me. Accidental AoOs, irritating pathing and the very large detours characters have to take around others due to large "hit boxes" are one of the main letdowns.
I agree with these two so much, backstab being gone has improved combat significantly. And, now we can really see the bug/issue with Opportunity Attacks. Misty Step managed to provoke multiple Opportunity Attacks in the recent Dror Ragzlin fight, multiple times.
Height Advantage; would you be down for an exchange between to-hit and range?
I think that considering my love-hate with height advantage then I would be pretty open to any sort of change that keeps some sort of benefit to being up high and penalty to being down low. basically I am easy so long as it still encourages players to play around with the verticality stuff.
Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
I agree with these two so much, backstab being gone has improved combat significantly. And, now we can really see the bug/issue with Opportunity Attacks. Misty Step managed to provoke multiple Opportunity Attacks in the recent Dror Ragzlin fight, multiple times.
Agreed. Thinking back to my original feedback on combat way back in the past User Experience during combat was the number one issue. BG3 combat is, for me, simultaneously fun, tense and engaging, while also being frustrating, full of mis-click traps, and buggy.
---
Thinking about it, and this might not be true, but perhaps the reason I enjoy BG3 combat so much more than Solasta is the lack of a cover system. Personally I don't like playing a cRPG like a cover shooter.
Yeah, personally when I DM I only account for cover if there is a bigger creature obscuring the view (Always +2 AC or none).
I know some folks want cover, but no cover has been keeping combat very fluid in Baldur's Gate 3. Especially since you can out-terrain enemies in the game already.
Just got through the Spider Matriarch fight, and I must say the fight was SO much easier. It was not nigh impossible like it used to be. First time I tried it, she downed my Gith Ranger. However, Lae'zel used Thunderwave and threw her off the web and into the main pit in the middle. She still had over half health left at the time.
I reloaded and fought her again. This time, fought her without throwing her into a pit. I still defeated her pretty well, at level 3 both times, but the height advantage is what made it so much easier. They've got to get rid of that now. Seriously. It either makes a battle too easy or too hard. If the enemies have height, you get your butt handed to you. If you do, you hand the enemy's butt to them. I would just shoot her webs out from under her and throw her to the ground. Then I'd hit easily enough and kill her. I also snuck up on the 2 Phase Spiders with her and killed them first, making the fight even easier, and most of the baby spiders were easily killed with a Cleave attack.
So, my final judgment on this fight? They went from making it too hard to too easy now. If I attack the Phase Spiders guarding her, she should join the fight with them, or something. I had the idea of giving her magic spells too. Since she was a mage prior to becoming a spider, what if she was able to cast a few spells? I don't know. Either way, the fight was a bit too weak.
But it's not like I want them to give her more HP. I'd like them to maybe get rid of height advantage and her falling from the webs and taking like 40 damage each time. That plus the height advantage is just ruining it. I do think the fight would have been a bit harder if I'd faced her with her two Phase Spider cronies too, so I think that if Larian were to implement these things the fight would have been much more challenging.
I'm not sure of the solution, really, but there has to be something in between.
And I still think Ethereal Jaunt shouldn't allow the Phase Spiders to teleport across the board to kill enemies. That right there is not Phase Spider type activities. They should use Ethereal Jaunt and disappear as a Bonus Action. Then reappear a round or two later on top of PCs, attacking them. Then on the next round, attacking and disappearing again. They are hit and fade enemies, not teleport across the board and spit poison from 100 feet away enemies. That right there might also help the fight. Ethereal Jaunt when right on top of PCs, hit them, and then they are visible for a round. On their next turn, they attack and then use Ethereal Jaunt to vanish. They are not able to be hit until on their next turn they use Ethereal Jaunt to reappear and attack again.
but the height advantage is what made it so much easier. They've got to get rid of that now. Seriously. It either makes a battle too easy or too hard. If the enemies have height, you get your butt handed to you. If you do, you hand the enemy's butt to them.
Yes, that is still, by far, the biggest variable in any fight.
Originally Posted by GM4Him
And I still think Ethereal Jaunt shouldn't allow the Phase Spiders to teleport across the board to kill enemies. That right there is not Phase Spider type activities. They should use Ethereal Jaunt and disappear as a Bonus Action. Then reappear a round or two later on top of PCs, attacking them. Then on the next round, attacking and disappearing again. They are hit and fade enemies, not teleport across the board and spit poison from 100 feet away enemies.
Yes, Phase Spiders teleporting away and spitting at you didn’t feel right. I am not sure Larian will be willing to let you sit for two turns and wait for spiders to reappear.
What puzzles me about the phase spiders is that there ARE spiders who are canonically supposed to have ranged attacks in D&D, so it's not really clear why Larian felt the urge to use one that it's notorious for being a "melee only" beast and gift to it an arbitrary ranged aoe venom spit.
This complete disregard for implementing the "appropriate canonical movesets" for their bestiary is part of what often makes me feel that Larian goes through the handling the D&D license as a painful constriction rather than a pleasure or privilege.
Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
What puzzles me about the phase spiders is that there ARE spiders who are canonically supposed to have ranged attacks in D&D, so it's not really clear why Larian felt the urge to use one that it's notorious for being a "melee only" beast and gift to it an arbitrary ranged aoe venom spit.
This complete disregard for implementing the "appropriate canonical movesets" for their bestiary is part of what often makes me feel that Larian goes through the handling the D&D license as a painful constriction rather than a pleasure or privilege.
And, it isn't like they don't have enemies doing things like Ethereal Jaunt with Invisibility Potions and jazz, so implementing it correctly wouldn't be hard. I don't get it. If you think the battle is too easy, throw a few more spiders in the battle, don't mess with a monster's stats. I mean, messing with the stats makes a monster no longer the monster. Like you said, the phase spider then becomes like a whole different type of spider.
Did the Gith fight, and it wasn't as bad as expected. In fact, I found it easier than patch 4. In patch 4, they were murdering me almost before I could take a turn. This time, not so bad.
Granted, I used Bless beforehand and Potions of Speed in Round 1 and I made sure I was full rested before triggering the fight. I also had my familiar for Lae'zel and my wolf for my Ranger which drew attacks from the Gith. Oh, and I cheesed it with high ground. I made sure to bolt for high ground so they couldn't, and then I pegged them from above... though not just pegging from above. I had 2 ranged and 2 melee.
Shields and best armor helped a lot, and I was level 4.
I hate how Phase Spiders are now elusive spitters. I hate the sea of exploding poison in those caves even more.
Ethereal predators who would surprise you at melee range would be much more tactically interesting, distinctive and scary. But do we have ranged enemies and AoE surface spam oh boy. Protection fighting style would have a great use against proper Phase Spiders. You'd have to place your mages next to your Fighters in a tight formation which in turn would open the party up for AoE's.
It's like Larian has a one track mind for tactical combat where it's just about high ground and teleport/mobility on wide open battlefields. And surfaces. And if D&D has a monster that would provide more tactical depth, they assimilate it into a teleporting and/or surface spamming creature.
how do you easily kill the bulet? I have to avoid that thing at all costs
The Spell Command: Halt is amazing against the Bulette. Its a wisdom saving throw DC 13 or 14 and the Bulette has no proficiency in Wisdom so it has to roll a 13/14 or higher to resist it.
how do you easily kill the bulet? I have to avoid that thing at all costs
The Spell Command: Halt is amazing against the Bulette. Its a wisdom saving throw DC 13 or 14 and the Bulette has no proficiency in Wisdom so it has to roll a 13/14 or higher to resist it.
By the way, Bulette is pronounced Bul-lay.
Buuuu-lay...
well thanks to you, everytime the buuulay goes by i'm going to be thinking he sounds like
