Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Let's make Minthara Great Again

Yeah, you're probably right. But I feel bad about people reading some of that rubbish and thinking "oh my goodness, these people are all like that", so some counter-yelling does unfotunately seem to be required.

And if it also leads to some understanding of just how brutal and conniving and unfathomably harsh and viscious and predatorious life happens to be in Menzoberranzan then that doesn't hurt either. But yeah, I think I've made my point here.

Currently the big flaw in Minthara is that her voice sounds a bit on the older side and her looks is a bit on the older side, but she's only a fairly low level cleric. It feels odd, though of course she can't have been a priestess of the Absolute for all that long just yet. It is not inconceivable that the tadpole and brainwashing gave her a hard reset. Aside from that, I like her. Well, I hate her guts, obviously, but that's how it should be, her being a an extremely evil fanatic Absolute-worshipping Drow and all.

I feel like saying, "Preach it!" lol.

The part about her making someone's face into new underwear... priceless. So Drowish. I want Minthara to say something like that now in the game. Like whenever you fight her she taunts you by saying she's going to skin you alive and fashion your face into a new pair of underwear. THAT would be awesome!

I do think a hard reset is what they're going for with anyone who has a brain bug. Take Karlach. She's supposed to be a demon slayer, but there she is injured almost fatally by a few cultists of Zariel. Gale should be some super powered wizard. Wyll is supposed to be a champion of Baldurs Gate.

So whatever the tadpoles did, it seems they reset their hosts.

Quite an interesting read. From my personal view all I can say in patch 5 Minthara looks a bit less dirpy, which I think is right.

As to the whole interesting post you have written… it might all be correct, but to me she didn’t have much more presence then “one of three goblin bosses”, with whom you can apparently sleep. Perhaps, I just didn’t explore her path deeply enough, but characterisation for her (and any other characters) just isn’t that strong.

I am not sure how much it can be improved - it is not Bioware RPG, so doing lengthy well structured sequence, like BG2 underdark is out of the question. I knew what BG2 drows were all about. In BG3 it’s just set of situations to mess with. There might be thought put into those characters, and lore books laying around, but we just don’t see the characters in action enough, to make a lasting impression. Nor, more importantly, do we get to interact with them in an interesting way. RPGs in particular have a unique ability explore characters and cultures through interaction. All I got from her was “here is an evil path for you. Kill the good guys for an unknown reason”.

Exactly ... Larian does ...
Just Larian ofcourse, i never seen it anywhere else ... excuse me for a second, i just go one-shot Lich King, and maybe Deathwing.

No I don't see what you mean. I don't think even you see what you mean. You are just confused.

Being pretty and being attractive are not necessarily synonyms but I am not surprised you can't see the difference. Sadly, it seems things are either within your political narrative or outside of it regardless of context.

I don't give a flying fuck about if Minthara's look fits my aesthetic standards. The problem is her look does not reflect Drow standards especially that of one who is high in their cast system. Power means nothing if you have to use it whenever you need people to see what it means that's why powerful people and groups show their capabilities through visual representations unless they have a reason to hide it. Otherwise, they would just jump from one unnecessary conflict to another and thinking "all I want is power why would I care about how people see me" is just naive. Naivety has no place in drow culture.

Sorry I don't make the rules and if something is inconsistent within the context it belongs then that means it is inconsistent within the context it belongs whether it fits your real world political view or not!

My personal hope for the game is that the writers create their characters, design their appearance, and integrate their stories without listening to any input from the players. People clamoring for adding Halsin to the party because he is a big hawt druid and demanding Minthara be hotter because she titillated some of subset of players with a nip shot is just ridiculous.

The same players who preach and whine about female characters needing to hotter and angrily posting about game devs bowing to the “woke mob” see no issue with demanding those same devs bow to their demands for hotter women? Seriously? I call hypocrisy. I find both points of view to be nothing more than a demand for writers to ignore their own creative impulses to please some immature howlers who think they know best “how it ought to be”.

Want some hawt animated chars to drool over? Write a fanfic or create a mod. But demanding the creators of a game change a story or a char to please you? It is beyond childish and entitled.

I saw how Bioware totally destroyed the lore of the templar order to make Cullen romance-able. I personally do not want to see Larian make side chars like Minthara and Halsin more important than they are to please a subset of their playerbase. It will be nothing but hackneyed writing if they do it, and it will show.

Sometimes it blows my mind how serious we fans can take stuff.

Let's take a step back. Think real life culture. In the 1950s, a woman would never be caught dead in pants. All women were to wear skirts to their ankles and have longer hair. Now, most women DONT wear long skirts and many DONT like long hair.

Who's to say all Drow women everywhere throughout all time must look a certain way?

Established game lore uses clear stereotypes. Stereotypes are useful for a consistent imaginary world.

Real world is chaotic and ever changing. If you try to overlap real world and game world all the time all you are left with will be confusion because everything becomes mutable at any given time.

There are ways to make changes in lore but it requires more effort than " hey I make changes now because real life is changeable" to stay consistent.

that's a weird way to say that you want girls to look like girls.

Agreed to the post you quoted though, it's insane to me just how much angst is involved in how women are portrayed. Oddly enough, more angst seems to come from men than women lol

Agreed. Established game lore is good. However, it's been 100 years in Faerun since the Time of Troubles. A LOT has changed. Establishing some new lore makes sense. My point is that customs change a lot in jist 50 years. It's conceivable that something as simple as hairstyles may have also changed for Drow in over 100 years.

Also, not EVERY place has to be the same. Drow in Menzo may be different from Drow in other places. I think it makes the world more realistic and immersive if stereotypes aren't always followed.

Sure, as long as you create a timeline where the narrative tells a story involving also these kind of cultural changes, such as a book approved by WoTC etc. etc. What I mean is if you wanna make changes in official source then at least make it with a background narration. Otherwise, the changes you make become baseless. I mean saying "hey drows look like this now and it is because we like to make it and we don't make a story behind our choice to fit in the game narrative" means some changes you make in the game universe needs more work. I mean it is just lazy writing expecting the audience to accept whatever you make without building a narrative network of reasoning.

Yeah, it takes one to know one. You may like to express yourself with hidden motives behind but what I say is what I mean.

"In many ways, the drow resembled other elves or eladrin.Their bodies were wiry and athletic, while their faces were chiseled and attractive, though they were shorter and thinner than other elven sub-races.- Due to a process of selective breeding that lasted for several generations,the drow (especially nobles) looked attractive even in comparison to other elven subraces. Though their alluring appearance could be used for seduction, it was more often utilized to instill fear. According to the goblin Nojheim, the beauty standards of the surface races made them prone to turn a blind eye to the deeds of the drow, showing them greater leniency and acceptance." quote Reynolds, Forbeck, Jacobs, Boyd (March 2003). Races of Faerûn. (Wizards of the Coast)

The official description of drows are not aligned with Larian's choise of visual representation for Minthara. You may like it, you may be happy because it reflects your real world political stance for whatever reason but all that doesn't change the fact that Minthara's look does not fit for the official descriptions that's why I say Larian's design choice on this character is not consistent with the lore. Minthara looks so modest and so drab in both v1.0 and 2.0 that even goblins look more attractive compared to her. She is too dull to be a drow.
Again, it is not about my personal choices. I haven't even spent time trying to talk to her in my play times. I just outright kill her to take the loot. I am not interested in evil playthrough. But Larian saying "hey look she is a drow" is total immersion breaker because the visual representation is not consistent with the lore. It means Larian's motives behind the design choices are not always about staying true to DnD universe and it bothers me. I don't like seeing video games being a tool for political signaling especially high fantasy ones but hey if they wanna turn their product into that then I guess they will do it. I have to suck it up but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

these are the only actual physical attributes in that quote and Minthara arguably fits all of those.

I'm not the one pushing their own idea of representation on a race, you are. You want her to fit YOUR idea of what is attractive, and i get it, but don't pretend you're just following the lore.

edit: Also, read the 5e pbe page 24. Not a single thing about skimpy clothing or instagram looks. Nothing at all actually about them being attractive.

You haven't even heard of Races of Faerûn up until my previous post and all of a sudden you become some sort of expert about its subtext, huh? Wow dude, it maybe too much confidence, I am telling you!

No she doesn't arguably fit all of those. Can you please be more elaborate and honest about what is physically attractive about her especially with the latest changes? Do you really think her face could be the product of selective breeding lasted for generations to produce attractive forms to seduce not only her kind but also other kinds especially surface races?
Plus, attractiveness is not all about physical attributes, it is also about representation (outfit, manner, posture etc. etc.). Her outfit is dull and modest compared to even that of goblins ffs unless it was designed for very specific people with very specific fetish!
How is she gonna seduce or intimidate surface races with her appearance? With her short hair being just short?

Minthara- " Heeey look at my short hair, it is not even fashioned short, it is just short short. and despair. Look at my ugly face which has no attractive attributes unless you have a very specific fetish and fall victim to my seduction. Look at my outfit which is purely designed for utility purposes just like that of a peasant without any visually spectacular and attractive decorations - again, unless you have a very specific fetish- and despair or fall victim to my seduction...your choice"

Huh? Is that it? Do you have an alternative interpretation to fit her into established lore? Try and see how silly it will become.

Things don't happen in midair without any base just because you say "maybeee"

Apart from all those, you labeling me for being smth I am not is becoming harassment.

For those of us who became endeared to the Minthara that was used through 4 patches it may very well be that our only hope will be modded appearances to provide more variety; I no longer feel comfortable romancing this new Minthara; because I still associate Minthara with her medium length hair from the first 4 patchs and I don't at all like her very loud silver eyeshadow; why even give her eyeshadow if the purpose of the patch 5 appearance change is to express a more masculine Minthara?; no character in Baldur's Gate 3 has eyeshadow that looks this bad in my opinion; with my reshade and lighting her eyeshadow makes the area around her eyes shine like disco balls; it doesn't suit her armored appearance or her haircut and I find it strange that the developers thought this makeup choice was appealing; but this is a permanent change it would seem; and I have a feeling that this may be her final major iteration besides her armor.

I've been wondering if her face has been changed other than hair and makeup alterations and coloring; it's honestly hard for me to tell; but it does seem like it if anyone knows please point it out to me; I've been scrutinizing images for a long time now trying to contrast the differences and I would like to list them. I should have taken more screenshots of her previous appearance when I had the chance; maybe I can revert the game with an earlier patch using steamdb.info; it would be nice if I could see exactly what changed.

I've done modding for only a few games mostly Skyrim and Fallout; I've never modded a Larian game; but I'm going to mod BG3 because basically Minthara is the only reason I was interested in this game, I paid 60 dollars for early access and lo and behold patch 5 comes around and they chop her hair off and give her some weird ill-fitting silver eyeshadow, they made her face sharper I think; though I'm going to do some image comparisons to figure that out.

I do wonder if Minthara's patch 5 appearance is more true to Larian's original concept art or if her pre patch 5 appearance is truer to the concept art; if anyone has any information regarding her concept art please share it; it would be useful to know especially to those of us who would like to mod her.

So in conclusion my fellow members of the Minthara fan club who prefer the original pre patch 5 Minthara; we're going to have to mod her and provide the community with appearance options for our favorite Drow villainess because I don't think the Larian devs are going to regard our opinion on this matter; but we the gamers can make her great again and even better than she was before; at least eventually; considering Gale's, Shadowheart's and Wyll's appearances have had mod overhauls; that said they are main characters and not npcs; so there may be some sort of differences in modding an npc character instead; I'm going to have to do some research on this.

I'm not sure why personal attacks had to enter the picture, but that's my cue to back out. Take the last word.

Um, what are you on about? Since when were drow into seducing the surface races? You do realize that most, if not all, of the surface races basically regard them as evil or at least not to be trusted, and the drow are all about just killing or enslaving the surface races, right? Nothing about them or their culture, goddess, society, or lore, leans into them being seductresses. They aren't succubi. They are about destroying or enslaving the surface races, so of course she would be wearing actual armor, not a chainmail bikini. I don't find her quite as attractive as she was before either, but that's fine, not every female character has to be a supermodel or something, and once again the drow aren't about selective breeding and seduction but war and conquest so being traditionally attractive doesn't really matter to them, much less to humans and other surface races.

That's not how D&D has ever worked. They develop the game. People play it and develop their own details. You expect them t literally write up every detail of lore for over 100 years?