Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Originally Posted by GM4Him
stuff

okay, let's take your suggestion then. All the badass characters are high level now. Let's say they're all level 10. Our party is level 3. What exactly are we going to be fighting until we get to level 10 to challenge the first couple of bosses in the game? Is Larian going to just say "fuck it, all the bosses we currently have in game are now high level and the party just can't fight them now" What? this is act ONE. Or do we just always happen to have another badass temporary ally that helps us out?

I don't get this! What do you think we'll be fighting late game? Mind Flayers. Single-handedly, just your party. The game is setting up for that. A LOW level mind flayer is CR 7. Top level is CR 8. Elder Brain is CR 14. So what do I expect late game? They're likely going to throw CR 7 enemies at you in number, so maybe 4 CR 7 Mind Flayers at one time plus minions. There is a HUGE way to go for what they can throw at you. Even if level cap is 10, it's not inconceivable that you could potentially handle Mind Flayers depending on your gear, choices in level ups, etc. What do YOU think they're going to throw at us? They've already thrown Intellect Devourers at 2 level 2 characters. I'll guarantee they're going to continue to throw stuff at us that is WAY higher level.

But regardless, I'm suggesting they use Hobgoblin Warlord stats for Ragzlin. That's CR 6. That's not a HUGE issue for a boss bad buy if your characters can reach level 5 by that point. Sure, you could also be at level 3, but that's again, only if you rush right to him and try to face him without first doing any grinding and exploring and leveling up. If you want to face a CR 6 Hobgoblin Warlord before you properly level up, that's on you. That's like rushing to the Gith and fighting 4 Gith at level 2 or 3. You SHOULD expect to get your butt handed to you.

But I cap at Level 4 even before I face the Gith. I actually could probably get to level 5 easy before fighting the Gith and Gnoll fights, depending on where I go and what I do, etc. So it is, again, not a huge ask to make one of the two major bosses of EA a CR 6 enemy.

So all I'm suggesting is that Ragzlin be set at the standards of a Hobgoblin Warlord. If Halsin is beefed up as well, and you get him to join your party for the fight, you'll have an easier time at it. If not, if you're at level 5, which I guarantee you would be if you do all the side quests by that point, you could still face a CR 6 Hobgoblin Warlord and his weak cronies.

As for Minthara, I would consider her close to the Drow Elite Warrior stats, something between Elite Warrior and Drow Mage, or at least she should be. That's a CR 5 to CR 7. Ragzlin, at one point, even says that "if the Absolute tells us to take orders from a Drow, then that's what we do." This implies that SHE'S the actual BIG BOSS of the entire EA. That being the case, she should probably be closer to the CR 7 challenge rating, meaning she SHOULD be more like the Drow Elite Warrior with additional cleric spellcasting.

It's doable. It's not impossible. How do I know? I TESTED IT. With Tabletop, I sent 4 level 5 characters plus Halsin against a Hobgoblin Warlord with Faithbreaker, and the PCs won with only 2 characters feeling the pain. Ragzlin had 12 minions with him. It wasn't an impossible fight. It wasn't even close to an impossible fight. It was actually quite a good fight, and it displayed Ragzlin's superior strength and power without totally overwhelming the players. It showed them to respect the boss. He wasn't just some peon they could walz in and kill like he was no big deal.

I also tested it out, again with Tabletop, with Olodan at level 9, Kagha at 8, Rath at 7. The druid fight was awesome! Walls of Fire! Conjured Animals! Thuderwave all over the place. The heroes suffered some hits, but the DM can, again, balance the encounter with NPC allies. Doing so is what makes D&D such a fun game. You can have these epic encounters with epic villains, and your party doesn't have to be gods and single-handedly wiping out the big bosses alone. They can use strats and get help from allies and make a sizeable difference. If villains are easy to beat weaklings, it doesn't feel like you've really overcome much.

In late game, you would expect more of that, but you don't NEED to during lower levels. Make the characters mechanically make sense, and balance the game around it. It's really not that hard.