Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Let's make Minthara Great Again

Never understood that idea of women with short hair is somehow masculine. Why isn't the same idea applied to men with long hair?

We live in times also in which certain hairstyles have earned themself a bad reputation.
Because they were adopted by people of repulsive behaviour & ideologies.
People who become Meme's and warning signals for the masses.


I am a man so I cannot say for the other way around but long hair has a very female impression in our modern society.
And it will remain this way no matter what some very loud & influental people say or do.
It just is that way.
Furthermore and as countless other heterosexual males, I have come to like it and view it as strongly expressing the feminim beauty.
"Short hair" for Women is considered shoulder deep probably for most.

But this?
This what happened to Minthara?
It is just "punk" or "feminist" or whatever "renegade" like style.
Very bad.

With Drow: You know they are fanatics. But now?
Now Minthara looks like she is nothing but some sort of insufferable extremist.


The calm, calculating, manipulative Drow who uses her feminim charm has disappeared.
She looks like someone being aggressive & verbally offensive to people in her society, probably on "protests".
^
This is what the new hairstyle of her's is now making me expect.
Just terrible.

Nothing wrong with a short hair style, it just that this hair style looks horrible for her. Everything else is fine, but this particular new hair looks terrible on her.

Drow tend to keep their hair longer with webbing and such as decorations. I'm fine with whatever they do with her appearance, really, but I'd either like to see something more traditional in terms of Drow female hair or give me a reason why she isn't that way. Maybe she cut her hair on purpose because she's apart of the cult of Absolute, so she's rejecting her own culture. Maybe she was disgraced by her people and they cut her hair and it was a reason why she joined the Absolute.

But, again, either way, it's a VERY small point for me. I'd just like to see her be MORE evil. None of the villains right now really give me any kind of totally evil and tough vibes except Minthara. When she's talking to Sazza and such, I get some chills. She SEEMS like she could be REALLY awesome as a first main villain, but they just don't do enough with her. Make a cutscene where she actually tosses someone in the spider pit and grins wickedly as she watches her spiders feast. Have her do more during the final grove fight, if you take that route. SOMEthing more. Right now, none of the villains are particularly menacing to me, and Minthara in particular seems like she really COULD be. Ragzlin just seems like a tough thug and Gut is an old lunch lady who can't do much. At least Minthara is something more... or at least she really could be.

Do we really need cutscenes for every single butt scratching in game? :-/

I mean come on ...
Minthara sends goblins to kill Sazza, bcs dealing with her personaly in beneath her.
You can go with them and watch the whole execution up close (funny, i never actualy tryed to save her, now when i think about it) ...

Isnt that enough? :-/
To me it seems much better, than Disney's Maleficient laughting in storm. -_-

Ah yes! Thanks for quoting what I suggested word for word. Nothing says evil villain like a good butt scratch cutscene. And yes, no one is as evil as Maleficent. Glad I brought her up too.

No wait! I DIDN'T.

I'm not looking for any of that. I said I just wanted something more sinister. The villains, all three of them, don't get much screen time at all, so they seem rather un-evil. Minthara is the only one who strikes me as being good enough at being a true evil villain, but they don't have her DO much of anything. IF you release Sazza, you get a glimpse of her evil, but that's it. IF you lure her to the grove for a final showdown, she side-steps an arrow like a bad-÷×%, but again, that's it.

She might not be a big boss in the grand scheme of things, but she could be made out to be SO much more awesome. She just needs SOMETHING more to make her more evil; something LIKE a small scene where she feeds someone herself to her spiders, them dangling there watching with QUIET delight as they scream.

I've never associated men with long hair to be more feminine. I guess it depends on how long I guess. Is Geralt from The Witcher more feminine?

And I couldn't care less if women have short hair.

Minthara was always great. Not very nice, but great.

Minthara would say she doesn't care what some filthy, knuckle-dragging human scum thinks of her hair.

Her words!

lol.

Minthara is great. That's why I want more of her in the game. Ragzlin and Gut are just needed. Minthara is the brains annd wickedness.

Yeah although it is not a prerequisite, it totally adds up if you also have plank chest, boney face and rusty voice altogether at once while wearing unisex clothing. Sorry, maybe it doesn't meet your equality standards but that's what's up for god knows how many thousands of years.

That's about real life projection on a fantasy world and many people hate it. I mean, drow culture in DnD is highly hedonistic and abusive. How good do you think the looks of both Minthara 1.0 and 2.0 reflect drow culture? Why is it so hard nowadays to make Minthara a sexy evil bitch? She comes from that kind of culture. It is a freeking fantasy world. People go into game worlds to get away from real world problems, not to be exposed the same bs there too...

This

I gotta say, the hooey said by Kein and Sinogy really does highlight the need for those "repulsive" feminists.

As a straight male, it is of course fairly depressing to have to say this, but women do not exist just to make our gigglesticks hard. And they are under no obligation to conform to our particular personal preferences. Frankly, and pardon me for being blunt, but I can think of no reason whatsoever that any female out there should ever care in the slightest how Kein and Sinogy defines femininity.

Regarding Minthara, so far it appears that she was formerly of House Baenre in Menzoberranzan. She does not appear to be particularly young either. That means she probably spent a century or more at the very top of the power pyramid in one of the most fanatically right-wing hellholes one can imagine, a place where the strong can do literally anything they want with the weak, and where the weak are not merely left to live or die as they can, but are in fact entirely without rights, purely the playthings of whomever cares to play with them.

Yes, Drow society is somewhat hedonistic, but the idea that a Drow of Minthara's former station would actually care a whole lot what others think of her appearance strikes me as almost unthinkable. If a daughter of the First House of Menzoberranzan wants to use you, she will tell you and you will perform. Whether you find her beautiful is of less than zero relevance, but while she has an interest, you will act as if she is the goddess of beauty. Or else. And that "or else" is several paragraphs of extremely nasty.

This is the Drow society that Minthara was raised in, the society she was raised to be a major power player in. And you think she should be a sexy bitch that gives even the tiniest little whiff of a fart what you think of her appearance? No, I think you're getting that power dynamic entirely wrong. She might not be a priestess of Lolth in Menzo anymore, but the arrogance and egomania of decades or even centuries does not go away easily. She's not trying to charm you into letting her be your bitch, she's graciously and generously allowing you the honor of being hers.

At least that's how I read her character.

AND THAT'S what I want more of. Minthara should be an absolute, pun intended, sinister witch. They don't portray that nearly enough. Regardless of appearance, she should send chills doen our spines in every scene, and she should be the absolute toughest boss of EA. She should be smart, and clever and utterly vicious in every way. I should feel like I'm talking to the Emperor from Star Wars when in her presence, scared to even take her on.

Instead, I'm like, "Meh. I could take her with my 4 level 4 characters. Easy."

I shall save this ... and i will post it every time someone will complain about me quoting everything i react on ...
Once i didnt and this is how it ends.

Funny you mention it ...

Halsin should be an ARCHDRUID ...
Nature fury enbodied to single person, personificated wrath of Sylvanus hymself (who would probably be pissed off, that you just massacred whole grove of his followers)
Instead, we are like, "Meh. I could take him with my 4 level 4 characters. Easy."

Ethel should be an acutal witch (or Hag ... in my language that are synonyms)
Instead, we are like, "Meh. I could take her with my 4 level 4 characters. Easy."

Gith patrol should be perfectly prepared to any danger this world can provide ...
Instead, we are like, "Meh. I could take them with my 4 level 4 characters. Easy."

One would almost say that the fact that "we can take them" is there bcs game is usualy created so player can overcome anything (with enough effort) ... and have nothing to do with what that person should present.

It is not a person it is a fictional character. Hellooo. There is nothing wrong in it entertains people.
Apart from that, people deserve much more credit than you give. I mean, you are proly a liberal sjw type person but things you wrote about males see women like this bla bla are not different than Trump saying video games incite violence!
Believe me, most people are at least as smart as you and they can differentiate real world from fantasy world.

Going back to Minthara. You have zero evidence to interpret about why she looks modest af. Drow is not somewhat hedonistic, they are highly hedonistic. You can not just cherry pick things fit into your world view story and exclude other factors by saying somewhat. There is nothing somewhat about it. Drow is created like that by the creators of this universe. I am not making the lore! So, suck it up.
Minthara coming from a strong house has no reason to be ugly and modest. You want an interpretation? Prople on top of the pyramid have access to the most desirable of things and tyrants are not modest. Minthara coming from a gene pool that manifests itself in the form of her being that ugly is pretty unlikely and culture she comes from make her look that modest even more unlikely. Capeesh?

With Men the hairstyle is not important but more the overall bone structure of the face & being possibly overweight.
Men look either like born winners or god was once more an a°°hole and decided this one is to amuse the masses with his goofy appearance.
A "handsome" man will look good with almost any hairstyle.
An unattractive man will look sh°° regardless what he does.


I wondered for some time why long hair has such a strong impact on females?
Must have to do with simple biological facts like vertility & the power of youth.

Men are instinctually programmed to seek not a beautiful mate to be with for life, but a suitable target simply for reproduction purposes, to ensure the survival of the species.
Long, thick & healthy hair is a sign of youth and a vibrant life force able to "produce" lots of children.
The older Humans become the less amazing, more pitiful and thin will their hair look.
Or at least the hair of the majority of people - a few natural born winners as the exception even until the day they check out.


Men are supposed to find "a vertile healthy female body" attractive.
This body type seems to have certain characteristics & shapes we all know as a classic example of beauty.
Nice curves, toned body, bodyfat proportions in all the right places ( the same as for what jiggles and what not ) and long, healthy looking hair.

Everything else will be automatically seen as inferior or less attractive.


Minthara as she looks now, looks less attractive.
She looks weak, "sick", frail, undernourished, about to get worse.
A man in hospital wear supporting himself on a stilt does not look strong either even if he has muscles. ^^
Our villainous EA Drow could look worse but she looks like she is suffering under some kind of condition right now.

Ah yes! You have once again proven my point about D&D 5e monsters in this game. Larian is using characters and monsters that should be WAY tougher, and they are dumbing them down. ALL of them. I 100% agree.

See what I mean? So much hooey. No, mate, you clearly cannot differentiate your personal fantasies from reality, because you're blabbering on about how other people must be "liberal sjw" types because they're okay with a murderous psychopath having short hair rather than being a sexy doll with long hair that stands around in a gobbo camp in heels, underwear, and full make-up. Because she's only a part time warlord and her real calling is obviously as a callgirl. Do I even need to put into words how ridiculous that idea is? By the way, that "liberal sjw" thing is quite revealing of your personal beliefs, isn't it?

"But it entertains people, so it is okay", no, not really. The game has a setting and characters should fit that setting. Drow daughters that were groomed from childhood to lord over everybody else and keep all the lessers in line should not be pretty girls that just want to be someone's plaything. It just does not fit.

And of course I can use the word "somewhat" whenever I feel like it. It's how people speak, mate. Get out of your basement and smell the world a bit, you'll realise it soon enough. For instance, your idea that Drow nobility are bred to be pretty is "somewhat" off the mark. Matron mothers are not chosen through a beauty pageant and while their male companions might be chosen in no small part based on who appeals to the matron at the time, there's no guarantee that it will produce offspring. Do the math. First priority is having children, second priority is children of sound mind. If they're pretty then that's a bonus.

Lastly, yes, the tyrants in Drow society have access to anything they want, more or less. So why do you think a power player in that society would want something as shallow and pathetic as "to be pretty"? What they want is power. More power. Then even more power. Ambition is everything. Looking weak or unhealthy is bad, but beyond that it would be a weakness if a Drow noble started feeling vulnerable about her appearance. The other sharks will smell that from a mile away and prey upon it. It would be a no go.

You mentioned Trump. He's a pretty good example, actually. Do you see Trump trying to be "pretty"? Is he often showcasing his "masculine charm"? No, he isn't. He is rich and powerful enough that if he calls himself pretty and good-looking and brags about his wrists and how youthful he is then who will contradict him to his face? Power dynamics at work. However, he does seem a bit prone to flattery and he seems "somewhat" vulnerable about some of his age-related attributes, like his thinning hair and his bad complexion. Do you think such vulnerabilities would be particularly helpful in a place like Menzo?

I think this is one of those conversations that does best when no one takes it particularly seriously.

Either by ignoring it completely and let them shout their doctrine into the indifferent sky, or just gently making fun of the posters.

One thing I am sure of, if Minthara heard OP criticize her hair she would skin you living and fashion your face into a new pair of underwear.

There you go again, equating your personal preferences with that of all men. Being a heterosexual male, something I gather from your previous comment is very important to you, I disagree quite a bit. What you're entering into is the usual pocket-philosophy nitwittery of alpha and beta, winners and losers, the same usual platitudal noise that you get from any half-decent "this is how you get laid" guide for basement people. Hooey.

Long hair does not mean vibrant, thick, lush hair. Short hair does not mean frail hair. On top of that, you're going head first into an enormous false dichotomy. That is to say, beauty is not a binary quality and the dramatic majority of people on the planet are neither beautiful nor ugly, but somewhere in the middle. On top of that, standards for what constitutes beautiful are not universally the same and have not universally been the same through time. A pretty woman 200 years ago looked very different from what we consider pretty now.

Currently we have a weird standard where completely unnatural proportions in women is apparently beautiful. To some, anyway. A weight of 100 lbs or less, enormous front pads made of plastic, and a waist you can reach around with your hands. And a butt so big that bringing a chair is optional. This is cartoon nonsense. It has nothing to do with looking youthful or healthy. It's just your intense desire for your personal fantasy to be "rational" that runs away from you. It isn't rational at all, it's just what you've been taught is pretty by your social environment, and it makes no more inherent sense than any other beauty standard.

Also, all that commentary about Minthara as if she was a 2021 woman rather than an Elf living in a medieval setting... Hooey.